From philippedidier at laposte.net  Fri Oct  1 01:28:46 2010
From: philippedidier at laposte.net (Philippe DIDIER)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:28:46 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] wrong reference to twitter in blog page
Message-ID: <4CA51D2E.9030106@laposte.net>



would you please correct this in the source of the blog : in the widget area
<a href="http://www.twitter.com/mageia_os <view-source:http://www.twitter.com/mageia_os>" target="_blank"><img src="http://blog.mageia.org/fr/wp-content/images/icon-twitter.png <view-source:http://blog.mageia.org/fr/wp-content/images/icon-twitter.png>"></a>

it must be 
href="http://www.twitter.com/mageia_org <view-source:http://www.twitter.com/mageia_os>"


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From dlucio at okay.com.mx  Fri Oct  1 01:33:35 2010
From: dlucio at okay.com.mx (Luis Daniel Lucio Quiroz)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:33:35 -0500
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia en Enli2010
Message-ID: <201009301833.36276.dlucio@okay.com.mx>

Ehlo All,

Well I got an oportunity on presenting Mageia in Enli2010 conferences 
(www.enli.org.mx).  Can we all work on a presentation?  So mexican people get 
involved and see this

I will place initial ODP in a public place so we may place suggestion.

Regards,

LD

From philippedidier at laposte.net  Fri Oct  1 01:36:45 2010
From: philippedidier at laposte.net (Philippe DIDIER)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:36:45 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] wrong ref in the blog page
Message-ID: <4CA51F0D.6000306@laposte.net>

 In the source code of the blog there's a wrong ref to twitter in the
"widget-area" class
it is written :
"http://www.twitter.com/mageia_os"

clicking on twitter symbol leads to a page that doesn't exist in twitter !!!

it must be :
"http://www.twitter.com/mageia_org"




From skiperdrake at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 01:54:24 2010
From: skiperdrake at gmail.com (Thomas Lottmann)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:54:24 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia en Enli2010
In-Reply-To: <201009301833.36276.dlucio@okay.com.mx>
References: <201009301833.36276.dlucio@okay.com.mx>
Message-ID: <4CA52330.700@gmail.com>

  Le 01/10/2010 01:33, Luis Daniel Lucio Quiroz a ?crit :
> Ehlo All,
>
> Well I got an oportunity on presenting Mageia in Enli2010 conferences
> (www.enli.org.mx).  Can we all work on a presentation?  So mexican people get
> involved and see this
>
> I will place initial ODP in a public place so we may place suggestion.
>
> Regards,
>
> LD

Sure, there must be a several introductory things that can be told about 
Mageia, but it will only be introductory though, as Mageia is still in 
construction.

From dlucio at okay.com.mx  Fri Oct  1 02:39:25 2010
From: dlucio at okay.com.mx (Luis Daniel Lucio Quiroz)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:39:25 -0500
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia en Enli2010
In-Reply-To: <4CA52330.700@gmail.com>
References: <201009301833.36276.dlucio@okay.com.mx> <4CA52330.700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201009301939.25578.dlucio@okay.com.mx>

Le jeudi 30 septembre 2010 18:54:24, Thomas Lottmann a ?crit :
>   Le 01/10/2010 01:33, Luis Daniel Lucio Quiroz a ?crit :
> > Ehlo All,
> > 
> > Well I got an oportunity on presenting Mageia in Enli2010 conferences
> > (www.enli.org.mx).  Can we all work on a presentation?  So mexican people
> > get involved and see this
> > 
> > I will place initial ODP in a public place so we may place suggestion.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > LD
> 
> Sure, there must be a several introductory things that can be told about
> Mageia, but it will only be introductory though, as Mageia is still in
> construction.

Yes of course

i wonder we may get attention

From nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 03:32:29 2010
From: nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org (Olivier Thauvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 03:32:29 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
Message-ID: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>

Hi,

I did started to contact some people to find Tier1 mirrors. One question
come immediatelly: what will be the size of our mirror tree ?

To have an idea I checked the mirror of the current Mandriva cooker and
the result make me afraid.

The current cooker tree (RPMS + installer only) is 88GB (SRPMS + i586 +
x86_64). If I add 3 DVD iso (4GB each) I get around 100GB.

This mean at the begining our mirror will be ~80 GB and in 3 years (1
release every 6 months) our tree size will be around 700GB !

700GB is an huge size. I know anyone can buy a 1 TB hard drive for a
small price, however this is not the way it works in real datacenter
where people take care to the safety of data (RAID1 is two disk). And
we have to think to future: what will be the size in 6 years ?

The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.

So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?

There are solutions, but they implies changes in our development
process and have counter parts:
- using hardlink between RPM:
  - can be done for noarch inside a release
  - no resiging packages from cooker to stable at release (rpm changes,
    any possible hardlink get broken)
- do not push -debug: will bother others developers
- removing old distro (having another tree for old): this usualy
  bother people having old distribution still working on some
  computers, 3 years is not a so long timelife

So:
- is this kind of size an issue ?
- do we have to reduce it ?
- do you have comments/idea about this state ?

Regards.

-- 

Olivier Thauvin
CNRS  -  LATMOS
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From chagam at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 04:15:18 2010
From: chagam at gmail.com (chag)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 04:15:18 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
Message-ID: <4CA54436.60306@gmail.com>

Hello,

Today, you can find 1To SATA hard disks around 60? (vat included). I 
shouldn't be to hard to have too I guess.if there's 100persons on this 
list, each gives 1.5? and you are done with the 2x1To hard disks in RAID.

Chag

Le 01/10/2010 03:32, Olivier Thauvin a ?crit :
> Hi,
>
> I did started to contact some people to find Tier1 mirrors. One question
> come immediatelly: what will be the size of our mirror tree ?
>
> To have an idea I checked the mirror of the current Mandriva cooker and
> the result make me afraid.
>
> The current cooker tree (RPMS + installer only) is 88GB (SRPMS + i586 +
> x86_64). If I add 3 DVD iso (4GB each) I get around 100GB.
>
> This mean at the begining our mirror will be ~80 GB and in 3 years (1
> release every 6 months) our tree size will be around 700GB !
>
> 700GB is an huge size. I know anyone can buy a 1 TB hard drive for a
> small price, however this is not the way it works in real datacenter
> where people take care to the safety of data (RAID1 is two disk). And
> we have to think to future: what will be the size in 6 years ?
>
> The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.
>
> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?
>
> There are solutions, but they implies changes in our development
> process and have counter parts:
> - using hardlink between RPM:
>    - can be done for noarch inside a release
>    - no resiging packages from cooker to stable at release (rpm changes,
>      any possible hardlink get broken)
> - do not push -debug: will bother others developers
> - removing old distro (having another tree for old): this usualy
>    bother people having old distribution still working on some
>    computers, 3 years is not a so long timelife
>
> So:
> - is this kind of size an issue ?
> - do we have to reduce it ?
> - do you have comments/idea about this state ?
>
> Regards.
>
>    

-- 
"Ca ne marche pas" ne veut rien dire. Alors ne dites rien (ou d?veloppez !)
"it doesn't work" means nothing. So, say nothing (or say more !)


From thomas at btspuhler.com  Fri Oct  1 04:30:58 2010
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:30:58 -0700
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
Message-ID: <201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>

On Thursday, September 30, 2010 06:32:29 pm Olivier Thauvin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I did started to contact some people to find Tier1 mirrors. One question
> come immediatelly: what will be the size of our mirror tree ?
> 
> To have an idea I checked the mirror of the current Mandriva cooker and
> the result make me afraid.
> 
> The current cooker tree (RPMS + installer only) is 88GB (SRPMS + i586 +
> x86_64). If I add 3 DVD iso (4GB each) I get around 100GB.
> 
> This mean at the begining our mirror will be ~80 GB and in 3 years (1
> release every 6 months) our tree size will be around 700GB !
> 
> 700GB is an huge size. I know anyone can buy a 1 TB hard drive for a
> small price, however this is not the way it works in real datacenter
> where people take care to the safety of data (RAID1 is two disk). And
> we have to think to future: what will be the size in 6 years ?
> 
> The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.
> 
> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?
> 
> There are solutions, but they implies changes in our development
> process and have counter parts:
> - using hardlink between RPM:
>   - can be done for noarch inside a release
>   - no resiging packages from cooker to stable at release (rpm changes,
>     any possible hardlink get broken)
> - do not push -debug: will bother others developers
> - removing old distro (having another tree for old): this usualy
>   bother people having old distribution still working on some
>   computers, 3 years is not a so long timelife
> 
> So:
> - is this kind of size an issue ?
> - do we have to reduce it ?
> - do you have comments/idea about this state ?
> 
> Regards.
Isn't the SVN that uses most of the space? Do we need to have everything back 
to the beginning incl all releases?

-- 
Thomas

From futureway at asia.com  Fri Oct  1 04:41:59 2010
From: futureway at asia.com (futureway at asia.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:41:59 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Chinese translation for Mageia's page
Message-ID: <8CD2F295AADC11B-D34-10C09@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>

Sorry, I once confused the two words "fork" and "branch". It is  
difficult to exactly translate the word "fork" into Chinese. Now, I feel  
that, the word "fork" has the meaning "parallel and independent", while  
the word "branch" has the meaning "dependent". So, "fork" is not  
"branch". Can the word "fork" be translated into "?? 
"? 

From franklin at goodhorse.idv.tw  Fri Oct  1 04:56:57 2010
From: franklin at goodhorse.idv.tw (Frank Weng (a.k.a. Franklin))
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:56:57 +0800
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Chinese translation for Mageia's page
In-Reply-To: <8CD2F295AADC11B-D34-10C09@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CD2F295AADC11B-D34-10C09@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <201010011057.00848.franklin@goodhorse.idv.tw>

? ?? 01 ?? 2010 10:41:59?futureway at asia.com ??:
> Sorry, I once confused the two words "fork" and "branch". It is
> difficult to exactly translate the word "fork" into Chinese. Now, I feel
> that, the word "fork" has the meaning "parallel and independent", while
> the word "branch" has the meaning "dependent". So, "fork" is not
> "branch". Can the word "fork" be translated into "??
> "?


IMO, fork: ???branch:  ??

But translations are for people using this language.  I think you can discuss 
your translations with people in your community.


Franklin
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From fundawang at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 05:11:33 2010
From: fundawang at gmail.com (Funda Wang)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:11:33 +0800
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Chinese translation for Mageia's page
In-Reply-To: <8CD2F295AADC11B-D34-10C09@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CD2F295AADC11B-D34-10C09@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=LdWxRWXLt-ug67=Gp6CXJsNCuYrXy-WJHKxES@mail.gmail.com>

2010/10/1  <futureway at asia.com>:
> Sorry, I once confused the two words "fork" and "branch". It is difficult to
> exactly translate the word "fork" into Chinese. Now, I feel that, the word
> "fork" has the meaning "parallel and independent", while the word "branch"
> has the meaning "dependent". So, "fork" is not "branch". Can the word "fork"
> be translated into "??"?
No. "??" often refers to derivative rather than fork.

From ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 05:16:39 2010
From: ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com (Ahmad Samir)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 05:16:39 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=QY=qX-dJc_Fu1uNvg4_xCddV+neS27QPrwnDM@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 October 2010 04:30, Thomas Spuhler <thomas at btspuhler.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 30, 2010 06:32:29 pm Olivier Thauvin wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I did started to contact some people to find Tier1 mirrors. One question
>> come immediatelly: what will be the size of our mirror tree ?
>>
>> To have an idea I checked the mirror of the current Mandriva cooker and
>> the result make me afraid.
>>
>> The current cooker tree (RPMS + installer only) is 88GB (SRPMS + i586 +
>> x86_64). If I add 3 DVD iso (4GB each) I get around 100GB.
>>
>> This mean at the begining our mirror will be ~80 GB and in 3 years (1
>> release every 6 months) our tree size will be around 700GB !
>>
>> 700GB is an huge size. I know anyone can buy a 1 TB hard drive for a
>> small price, however this is not the way it works in real datacenter
>> where people take care to the safety of data (RAID1 is two disk). And
>> we have to think to future: what will be the size in 6 years ?
>>
>> The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.
>>
>> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?
>>
>> There are solutions, but they implies changes in our development
>> process and have counter parts:
>> - using hardlink between RPM:
>> ? - can be done for noarch inside a release
>> ? - no resiging packages from cooker to stable at release (rpm changes,
>> ? ? any possible hardlink get broken)
>> - do not push -debug: will bother others developers
>> - removing old distro (having another tree for old): this usualy
>> ? bother people having old distribution still working on some
>> ? computers, 3 years is not a so long timelife
>>
>> So:
>> - is this kind of size an issue ?
>> - do we have to reduce it ?
>> - do you have comments/idea about this state ?
>>
>> Regards.
> Isn't the SVN that uses most of the space? Do we need to have everything back
> to the beginning incl all releases?
>
> --
> Thomas
>

IHMO, SVN (and SRPMS) are more important than binary packages, no
point keeping a twig and killing the tree it came from, right?
especially as SVN logs explain why every thing concerning a particular
package was done in a certain way...

-- 
Ahmad Samir

From rarroyo23 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 05:59:44 2010
From: rarroyo23 at gmail.com (Ricardo Manuel Arroyo Alvarado)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:59:44 -0600
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] logo proposal
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.09.30.16.59.59.684936@bcs.org.uk>
References: <AANLkTikYLg2ZbP9U887jB5Lu3xwOn29niypoKS8FbBzW@mail.gmail.com>
	<pan.2010.09.30.16.59.59.684936@bcs.org.uk>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimpQtE=xJGFf0455CVfcO_zy=TFGLADKKjTM00x@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks.


2010/9/30 Maurice Batey <maurice at bcs.org.uk>

> On Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:36:18 -0600, Ricardo Manuel Arroyo Alvarado wrote:
>
> >  http://www.flickr.com/photos/43049453 at N04/sets/72157625062936156/
>
>   the 'purple eye' icon is quite nice!
>
> --
> /\/\aurice
>
>
>


-- 
Ricardo M. Arroyo Alvarado
Tel. 2639-4043 / 8886-2806
T?cnico Mantenimiento de PC's (Titulado y Certificado)
Mi M?quina: http://picasaweb.google.com/rarroyo23/Mandriva2009#

MSN: rarroyo46(arroba)yahoo(punto)com

Skype: rarroyo15

Mi p?gina: http://my.opera.com/rarroyo23/

Linux Usuario Registrado #492143
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From futureway at asia.com  Fri Oct  1 07:57:54 2010
From: futureway at asia.com (futureway at asia.com)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:57:54 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Chinese translation for Mageia's page
Message-ID: <8CD2F44B954D08B-9B4-156B7@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com>

I have no other community now. And this is our community. You and I use  
the same native language -- Chinese, though we use different Chinese  
characters. (I don't mind if you use the traditional Chinse characters,  
and I also can read them because I am interested in ancient books.)

"??" can be used as "a fork of a road", but "??" is used as "a branch of  
a tree", right? However, "fork" also has a meaning "branch" in many  
dictionaries. There is another difficult word "hack", and it is also  
difficult to be exactly translated into Chinese.

You can directly modify my Chinese translation (Skiper had sent it to  
the site), or put your Chinese translation on the site's front page. I  
wish to see a Chinese page in the site. :)

Linux  
Lover 

From tmb at iki.fi  Fri Oct  1 08:09:56 2010
From: tmb at iki.fi (Thomas Backlund)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 09:09:56 +0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA54436.60306@gmail.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA54436.60306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA57B34.4040903@iki.fi>

chag skrev 1.10.2010 05:15:

[top posting fixed]
>
> Le 01/10/2010 03:32, Olivier Thauvin a ?crit :
>> Hi,
>>
[...]
>> The current cooker tree (RPMS + installer only) is 88GB (SRPMS + i586 +
>> x86_64). If I add 3 DVD iso (4GB each) I get around 100GB.
>>
>> This mean at the begining our mirror will be ~80 GB and in 3 years (1
>> release every 6 months) our tree size will be around 700GB !
>>
>> 700GB is an huge size. I know anyone can buy a 1 TB hard drive for a
>> small price, however this is not the way it works in real datacenter
>> where people take care to the safety of data (RAID1 is two disk). And
>> we have to think to future: what will be the size in 6 years ?
>>
>> The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.
>>
>> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?
>>

>
> Today, you can find 1To SATA hard disks around 60? (vat included). I
> shouldn't be to hard to have too I guess.if there's 100persons on this
> list, each gives 1.5? and you are done with the 2x1To hard disks in RAID.
>

The problem is not the Mageia internal or reference mirror.
The problem is do we get enough big, fast and reliable mirrors that:
1. can be a Tier1
2. want to host that much data

This also affects how many downstream mirrors that want to help,
as they all ask: "do we want to host another ~1TB or so..."

And without enough good Tier1 mirrors, the few (one?) existing ones will 
be overloaded, and mirroring will take a long time, meaning several 
mirrors will have outdated / not fully synced mirrors -> Mageia gets 
complaints about unreliable mirrors...

So it's sure something to think about...
--
Thomas


From franklin at goodhorse.idv.tw  Fri Oct  1 08:14:59 2010
From: franklin at goodhorse.idv.tw (Frank Weng (a.k.a. Franklin))
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:14:59 +0800
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Chinese translation for Mageia's page
In-Reply-To: <8CD2F44B954D08B-9B4-156B7@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CD2F44B954D08B-9B4-156B7@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <201010011415.01202.franklin@goodhorse.idv.tw>

? ?? 01 ?? 2010 13:57:54?futureway at asia.com ??:
> I have no other community now. And this is our community. You and I use
> the same native language -- Chinese, though we use different Chinese
> characters. (I don't mind if you use the traditional Chinse characters,
> and I also can read them because I am interested in ancient books.)
> 
> "??" can be used as "a fork of a road", but "??" is used as "a branch of
> a tree", right? However, "fork" also has a meaning "branch" in many
> dictionaries. There is another difficult word "hack", and it is also
> difficult to be exactly translated into Chinese.
> 
> You can directly modify my Chinese translation (Skiper had sent it to
> the site), or put your Chinese translation on the site's front page. I
> wish to see a Chinese page in the site. :)
> 
> Linux
> Lover

"??" may be more like the word "derivative", but for "fork" here I think the 
meaning is not too far.

I just read again the traditional Chinese translations for the Mageia 
announce.  "Forking" here our translators used "??".  Actually they are all 
almost the same meanings, and I don't think it necessary to use different to 
"tell apart" from them all.

BTW, I don't know if it is appropriate to discuss these translations on 
discuss mailing list, or even i18n mailing list, since these discussions are 
for certain langauge.  Here in Taiwan we formed a google group for mageia 
Taiwan users for discussing.  Maybe you can try to form one too.


Franklin
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From tux99-mga at uridium.org  Fri Oct  1 08:15:41 2010
From: tux99-mga at uridium.org (Tux99)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 08:15:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA57B34.4040903@iki.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010010813140.14786-100000@outpost-priv>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Thomas Backlund wrote:

> chag skrev 1.10.2010 05:15:
> 
> This also affects how many downstream mirrors that want to help,
> as they all ask: "do we want to host another ~1TB or so..."

I wouldn't be surprised if in the long run mirrors currently mirroring 
Mandriva will dump Mandriva and support Mageia instead.
In that case their space requirements would not change.


From tmb at iki.fi  Fri Oct  1 08:21:24 2010
From: tmb at iki.fi (Thomas Backlund)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 09:21:24 +0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
Message-ID: <4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>

Olivier Thauvin skrev 1.10.2010 04:32:
> Hi,
>
[...]
> The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.
>
> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?
>
> There are solutions, but they implies changes in our development
> process and have counter parts:
> - using hardlink between RPM:
>    - can be done for noarch inside a release

Should be done.

>    - no resiging packages from cooker to stable at release (rpm changes,
>      any possible hardlink get broken)

If we resign the whole tree and relink it "offline", and then move the 
full tree online, does it still break downstream mirrors ?

> - do not push -debug: will bother others developers

Maybe separated on the mirror so downstream mirrors can choose not to 
mirror it if space is an issue?

> - removing old distro (having another tree for old): this usualy
>    bother people having old distribution still working on some
>    computers, 3 years is not a so long timelife
>

If we need to do the "move current -> old" dance, we need to be careful 
so mirrors does not end up resyncing another 100GB every time...
(IIRC you had complaints about how it was done earlier at Mandriva, so
  we need to remember those problems)

ANd this of course depends on how many releases/year we do, and for how 
long they are supported.

and the whole rolling vs. stable releases discussion.

--
Thomas



From mageia at damsweb.net  Fri Oct  1 08:36:50 2010
From: mageia at damsweb.net (Damien Lallement)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 08:36:50 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] wrong reference to twitter in blog page
In-Reply-To: <4CA51D2E.9030106@laposte.net>
References: <4CA51D2E.9030106@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <4CA58182.8080609@damsweb.net>

Le 01/10/2010 01:28, Philippe DIDIER a ?crit :
>
>
> would you please correct this in the source of the blog : in the widget area
> <a  href="http://www.twitter.com/mageia_os  <view-source:http://www.twitter.com/mageia_os>"target="_blank"><img  src="http://blog.mageia.org/fr/wp-content/images/icon-twitter.png  <view-source:http://blog.mageia.org/fr/wp-content/images/icon-twitter.png>"></a>
>
> it must be
> href="http://www.twitter.com/mageia_org  <view-source:http://www.twitter.com/mageia_os>"

Oops,

Thank you.
Fixed.
-- 
Damien Lallement

From p_christ at hol.gr  Fri Oct  1 09:18:34 2010
From: p_christ at hol.gr (P. Christeas)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:18:34 +0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA54436.60306@gmail.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA54436.60306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201010011018.34802.p_christ@hol.gr>

On Friday 01 October 2010, chag wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Today, you can find 1To SATA hard disks around 60? (vat included). 

I don't think it works that way. You don't just go to the local shop, buy 2 
disks and stick them in the data center.


-- 
Say NO to spam and viruses. Stop using Microsoft Windows!

From p_christ at hol.gr  Fri Oct  1 09:20:21 2010
From: p_christ at hol.gr (P. Christeas)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:20:21 +0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <201010011020.22190.p_christ@hol.gr>

On Friday 01 October 2010, Thomas Spuhler wrote:
> Isn't the SVN that uses most of the space? Do we need to have everything
> back to the beginning incl all releases?

That's *exacly* the problem, and people fail to open their eyes to 
alternatives.


-- 
Say NO to spam and viruses. Stop using Microsoft Windows!

From tmb at iki.fi  Fri Oct  1 09:28:28 2010
From: tmb at iki.fi (Thomas Backlund)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:28:28 +0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
Message-ID: <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>

Thomas Backlund skrev 1.10.2010 09:21:
> Olivier Thauvin skrev 1.10.2010 04:32:
>> Hi,
>>
> [...]
>> The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.
>>
>> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?
>>
>> There are solutions, but they implies changes in our development
>> process and have counter parts:
>> - using hardlink between RPM:
>>     - can be done for noarch inside a release
>
> Should be done.
>

Oh, and this is why I have suggested from time to time to break noarch 
out of arch trees, so:

SRPMS
i586
x86_64

would turn into:

SRPMS
i586
noarch
x86_64

or given the -debug question even:

SRPMS
debug
i586
noarch
x86_64


And then add to the Mirroring FAQ (for endusers) that you need noarch in 
addition to the arch you want to mirror.

Of course this means some changes to the upload system
(installer / mirror manager should be simple as they read media.cfg)

--
Thomas


From stormi at laposte.net  Fri Oct  1 10:36:28 2010
From: stormi at laposte.net (Samuel Verschelde)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:36:28 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
Message-ID: <201010011036.28216.stormi@laposte.net>


Le vendredi 1 octobre 2010 03:32:29, Olivier Thauvin a ?crit :
> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?

Games are often big packages (~500 Mb of data), and there tends to be more and more of them. Plus, we like to backport the last version to previous distribution releases.

I don't suggest to drop games, because to me they are an important part of the repositories, but what about creating a separate repository for games ? Mirrors could choose to mirror it or not, depending on the space they can offer ?

Regards

Samuel Verschelde


From misc at zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 10:47:00 2010
From: misc at zarb.org (Michael Scherer)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:47:00 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <1285922820.5530.303.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>

Le jeudi 30 septembre 2010 ? 19:30 -0700, Thomas Spuhler a ?crit :

> Isn't the SVN that uses most of the space? Do we need to have everything back 
> to the beginning incl all releases?
> 

Svn is not present on every mirror, so this is not relevant to the
discussion, no ?

-- 
Michael Scherer


From misc at zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 10:47:56 2010
From: misc at zarb.org (Michael Scherer)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:47:56 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201010011020.22190.p_christ@hol.gr>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
	<201010011020.22190.p_christ@hol.gr>
Message-ID: <1285922876.5530.306.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>

Le vendredi 01 octobre 2010 ? 10:20 +0300, P. Christeas a ?crit :
> On Friday 01 October 2010, Thomas Spuhler wrote:
> > Isn't the SVN that uses most of the space? Do we need to have everything
> > back to the beginning incl all releases?
> 
> That's *exacly* the problem, and people fail to open their eyes to 
> alternatives.

Alternatives to the current system ( ie sources in svn ) were discussed
on maintainers@, but we didn't have to implement them.


-- 
Michael Scherer


From misc at zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 10:50:17 2010
From: misc at zarb.org (Michael Scherer)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:50:17 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>  <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
Message-ID: <1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>

Le vendredi 01 octobre 2010 ? 10:28 +0300, Thomas Backlund a ?crit :
> Thomas Backlund skrev 1.10.2010 09:21:
> > Olivier Thauvin skrev 1.10.2010 04:32:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> > [...]
> >> The current full Mandriva mirror is more than 1,2 TB.
> >>
> >> So an immediate question come: should we try to reduce the size ?
> >>
> >> There are solutions, but they implies changes in our development
> >> process and have counter parts:
> >> - using hardlink between RPM:
> >>     - can be done for noarch inside a release
> >
> > Should be done.
> >
> 
> Oh, and this is why I have suggested from time to time to break noarch 
> out of arch trees, so:
> 
> SRPMS
> i586
> x86_64
> 
> would turn into:
> 
> SRPMS
> i586
> noarch
> x86_64

We can simply do a hardlink for this, so no space is wasted and no need
to have different directory ( of course, the hardlink must be done maybe
it is already the case, didn't check ).

> or given the -debug question even:
> 
> SRPMS
> debug
> i586
> noarch
> x86_64

-debug are arch specifics, no ?

-- 
Michael Scherer


From misc at zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 10:50:59 2010
From: misc at zarb.org (Michael Scherer)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:50:59 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010010813140.14786-100000@outpost-priv>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010010813140.14786-100000@outpost-priv>
Message-ID: <1285923059.5530.316.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>

Le vendredi 01 octobre 2010 ? 08:15 +0200, Tux99 a ?crit :
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Thomas Backlund wrote:
> 
> > chag skrev 1.10.2010 05:15:
> > 
> > This also affects how many downstream mirrors that want to help,
> > as they all ask: "do we want to host another ~1TB or so..."
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if in the long run mirrors currently mirroring 
> Mandriva will dump Mandriva and support Mageia instead.
> In that case their space requirements would not change.

I hope they will still mirror Mandriva.

And well, mirroring had problem in the past with Mandriva, maybe because
of such issue ( not only ) so that's not really a good solution.
-- 
Michael Scherer


From marc at marcpare.com  Fri Oct  1 11:08:57 2010
From: marc at marcpare.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marc_Par=E9?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 05:08:57 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010010813140.14786-100000@outpost-priv>
References: <4CA57B34.4040903@iki.fi>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010010813140.14786-100000@outpost-priv>
Message-ID: <i848fa$rhj$1@dough.gmane.org>

Le 2010-10-01 02:15, Tux99 a ?crit :
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Thomas Backlund wrote:
>
>> chag skrev 1.10.2010 05:15:
>>
>> This also affects how many downstream mirrors that want to help,
>> as they all ask: "do we want to host another ~1TB or so..."
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if in the long run mirrors currently mirroring
> Mandriva will dump Mandriva and support Mageia instead.
> In that case their space requirements would not change.
>
>

I don't think that the mirrors will necessarily drop mirror support for 
Mandriva for Mageia because the Mandriva brand does carry some weight 
and they have not, as of yet' abandoned the developing MandrivaLinux. 
They are still in the server market and have said that their consumer 
product will be carried on as usual.

This is where the marketing of the Mageia brand would maybe make a 
difference. If the stated goals of Mageia are clear and marry well with 
the mirror site philosophies then we could probably convince sites to 
mirror Mageia.

Taking a look at mirror sites, it is evident that the larger mirrors are 
universities and educational institutions. If Mageia goals are to 
construct a linux distro with emphasis on serving the educational needs 
of its users, then this may help in convincing sites to mirror Mageia 
repos. This does not mean that ALL of Mageia would be focused on the 
educational aspect of the distro but the MAIN focus of goals is the 
educational aspect of the distro.

I also agree, that seeing as games take a big chunk of the size of the 
storage considerations, it may be best to establish a mirror distro. 
Mageia could maybe see if another distro would be interested in 
cooperating and pooling resources and help in establishing a mirror 
service solely for games service.

I also helps if some of the devs are university students and they may be 
able to convince their particular university to host a repository. But I 
expect that universities would want to see clear stated objectives of a 
new distro's philosophy before taking on a mirror.

I don't think that we could use the "We are the Mandriva community 
replacement." argument, as Mandriva has clearly stated that their 
consumer distro will be developed by devs from emerging countries rather 
than in Europe. In fact, this argument itself from Mandriva gives them 
more reason as to why educational institutions may continue to carry 
their mirrors.

Would it be enough to convince one university for each country to carry 
a mirror of Mageia at this time? Would this be enough to start of with?

Marc


From skiperdrake at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:33:32 2010
From: skiperdrake at gmail.com (Thomas Lottmann)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:33:32 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Chinese translation for Mageia's page
In-Reply-To: <201010011415.01202.franklin@goodhorse.idv.tw>
References: <8CD2F44B954D08B-9B4-156B7@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com>
	<201010011415.01202.franklin@goodhorse.idv.tw>
Message-ID: <4CA5B8FC.3090105@gmail.com>

  Le 01/10/2010 08:14, Frank Weng (a.k.a. Franklin) a ?crit :
> ? ?? 01 ?? 2010 13:57:54?futureway at asia.com ??:
>> I have no other community now. And this is our community. You and I use
>> the same native language -- Chinese, though we use different Chinese
>> characters. (I don't mind if you use the traditional Chinse characters,
>> and I also can read them because I am interested in ancient books.)
>>
>> "??" can be used as "a fork of a road", but "??" is used as "a branch of
>> a tree", right? However, "fork" also has a meaning "branch" in many
>> dictionaries. There is another difficult word "hack", and it is also
>> difficult to be exactly translated into Chinese.
>>
>> You can directly modify my Chinese translation (Skiper had sent it to
>> the site), or put your Chinese translation on the site's front page. I
>> wish to see a Chinese page in the site. :)
>>
>> Linux
>> Lover
> "??" may be more like the word "derivative", but for "fork" here I think the
> meaning is not too far.
>
> I just read again the traditional Chinese translations for the Mageia
> announce.  "Forking" here our translators used "??".  Actually they are all
> almost the same meanings, and I don't think it necessary to use different to
> "tell apart" from them all.
>
> BTW, I don't know if it is appropriate to discuss these translations on
> discuss mailing list, or even i18n mailing list, since these discussions are
> for certain langauge.  Here in Taiwan we formed a google group for mageia
> Taiwan users for discussing.  Maybe you can try to form one too.
>
>
> Franklin
Isn't that too heavy?

I mean, if the translation is fine enough to be understandable according 
to it's author or authors, can't it be published more simply?

Linux Lover isn't very used to mailing lists yet. Managing a google 
group while he is almost the only one to participate in China is perhaps 
not helping much. So I guess there is no need to block the publishing of 
one translation because of a simple word... it can be fixed later if 
really it is not understandable at all.

...how about a translation for "division" or "split" or "scission" if 
the current word for the fork process really is not that good?

Thomas.
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From fabrice.facorat at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:38:31 2010
From: fabrice.facorat at gmail.com (Fabrice Facorat)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:38:31 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools
	on github
Message-ID: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>

I've been following closely all the Mandriva vs Mageia story. I found
it unfortunate that we have to come to this way, but I guess there's a
serious fracture between Mandriva and part of its community. We have
no choice except to cope with this and try to do our best to allow
this unfortunate situation to found a sensible solution in the future.

As we know, one of the Mandriva strenght are the Mandriva tools,
however Mandriva tools have some issues :
- they are written in perl. Sorry for perl dev, but I do still think
that perl is harder to understand than C-like based syntax langages.
However we must admit that we are not going to rewrite all the
Mandriva tools ;-) However better documentation ( PerlDoc tags ) could
help a little.

- Mandriva tools are not used by others distributions ( except
PCLinuxOS, United Linux, and ... Mageia ) and so have few external
contributions : They notably lack visibility.

I do think also that Mandriva will have to use its ressources in an
efficient way.

Here aree my proposals, feel free to discuss :

1. host Mandriva tools on github or code.google.com. This will ease
fork maintenance and tracking, to contribute back ( without having to
have a Mandriva account )

2. Make some decisions about the tools we should keep, and the ones we
should ... trash. For example we did replace printerdrake with
system-config-printer ( python ), and msec have been rewritten (
python ). Whereas I do think that system-config-printer is way buggier
than printerdrake, I guess that at some points, we will have to do
this more and more : replace some Mandriva tools with for example some
Fedora ones. Please note however that this bring its own issues :
python vs perl, and the integration with the rest of Mandriva
infrastructure

3. A decision will have to be made concerning net_applet and NetworkManager

4. Whereas I do love rpmdrake, I do think also that something will
have to be done about it as its UI is clearly outdated and not on par
with the competition :
- Ubuntu software center :
http://seilo.geekyogre.com/2010/09/software-center-with-a-dose-of-zeitgeist-and-maybe-teamgeist/
, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center ,
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter
- iTunes App Store :
http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_to_download_iphone_apps_from_apple_itunes_store.html
, http://cybernetnews.com/download-iphone-firmware-20-itunes-77-app-store-and-more/
- Interesting discussion about PackageKit direction :
http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/a-story-about-updates-and-people/

So we may have to completely rewrite rpmdrake UI or switch to
packagekit with and urpmi backend.

5. Junior tasks contributions. I noticed while visiting the
LibreOffice website. They have junior task for people willing to
contribute to the codebase, and most of theses junior tasks consist to
improve code clarity, fix comments. I guess that the same thing could
be done with Mandriva tools, notably adding perldoc tags/comments.

Last but not least, I know that on Mageia ML, there was a discussion
about the people we should target. Here are some interesting
reflexions :
Sweet Caroline : http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/sweet-caroline/
fedoraproject.org redesign update :
http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/fedoraproject-org-redesign-update/
You must be this tall to ride: __ :
http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/you-must-be-this-tall-to-ride-__/


-- 
Close the World, Open the Net
http://www.linux-wizard.net

From mageia at blino.org  Fri Oct  1 12:46:36 2010
From: mageia at blino.org (Olivier Blin)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:46:36 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org> (Michael Scherer's
	message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:50:17 +0200")
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi> <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
Message-ID: <m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>

Michael Scherer <misc at zarb.org> writes:

>> Oh, and this is why I have suggested from time to time to break noarch 
>> out of arch trees, so:
>> 
>> SRPMS
>> i586
>> x86_64
>> 
>> would turn into:
>> 
>> SRPMS
>> i586
>> noarch
>> x86_64
>
> We can simply do a hardlink for this, so no space is wasted and no need
> to have different directory ( of course, the hardlink must be done maybe
> it is already the case, didn't check ).

Yes, noarch are supposed to be hardlinked already.
But it could make the upload process simpler to have noarch in a
separate directory (no need to hardlink to all arches), and genhdlist2
faster (by splitting out a noarch hdlist).

BTW, we could also consider migrating to a PLF-like tree structure,
which looks better structured:

media/
  main/
    release/
      binary/
        noarch/
        arch1/
        arch2/
        ...
      debug/
        arch1/
        arch2/
        ...
      source/
    testing/
      ...
    updates/
      ...
    backports/
  contrib/
     ...
  non-free/
     ...

-- 
Olivier Blin - blino

From mageia at blino.org  Fri Oct  1 12:52:50 2010
From: mageia at blino.org (Olivier Blin)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:52:50 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
	Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
	(Fabrice Facorat's message of "Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:38:31 +0200")
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m34od6rxq5.fsf@euphor.blino.org>

Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> writes:

> 1. host Mandriva tools on github or code.google.com. This will ease
> fork maintenance and tracking, to contribute back ( without having to
> have a Mandriva account )

Why host them externally?
A self-hosted "forge" is probably better.

But actually, just moving to git could make contributions easier,
because of the ability for developpers to commit locally, and push
incremental patchsets.

-- 
Olivier Blin - blino

From nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 12:57:08 2010
From: nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org (Olivier Thauvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:57:08 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA54436.60306@gmail.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA54436.60306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20101001105708.GO1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>

* chag (chagam at gmail.com) wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Today, you can find 1To SATA hard disks around 60? (vat included). I  
> shouldn't be to hard to have too I guess.if there's 100persons on this  
> list, each gives 1.5? and you are done with the 2x1To hard disks in RAID.

If you take into account performance, maintenance and having disk not
failing into 3 months the price is not just 2x60 ?.

A professional sata disk is more around 100?.

Saying that, the global size Mageia will need is more around 2 or 3 Tera
if you add BS, SVN, Mirrors, users home, etc...

Obiouvsly, managing such size is a bit more complex: you'll need RAID5
or RAID6, 4 to 6 disks and a computer with enough disk slot.

We cannot manage our server like a desktop if we do not want to be face
to problem later !

On mirror size the problem is bigger, you have to permanently check you
have enough disk space and adding 1TB to the current system is not just
adding a 60? disk.

You can have a look to the picture at bottom of the distrib-coffee web
page to understand what I mean:
http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/
Each array cost around 1500?, but none of them have lost data yet since
it get installed (5 years ago).

Regards.

-- 

Olivier Thauvin
CNRS  -  LATMOS
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 13:00:54 2010
From: nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org (Olivier Thauvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:00:54 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <1285922820.5530.303.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201009301930.59068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
	<1285922820.5530.303.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
Message-ID: <20101001110054.GP1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>

* Michael Scherer (misc at zarb.org) wrote:
> Le jeudi 30 septembre 2010 ? 19:30 -0700, Thomas Spuhler a ?crit :
> 
> > Isn't the SVN that uses most of the space? Do we need to have everything back 
> > to the beginning incl all releases?
> > 
> 
> Svn is not present on every mirror, so this is not relevant to the
> discussion, no ?

Svn is not on any mirror. All size I gave only refer to RPMs + installer
+ ISO.

FYI: current svn size if 500 GB.

-- 

Olivier Thauvin
CNRS  -  LATMOS
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From tux99-mga at uridium.org  Fri Oct  1 13:03:14 2010
From: tux99-mga at uridium.org (Tux99)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:03:14 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
 Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <i84eqs$naa$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011259530.15309-100000@outpost-priv>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Marc Par? wrote:

> Just speaking from the "user" point of view. Let us not lose sight that 
> one of the strong points of Mandriva/Mageia is the use of the MCC. 
> Having all the controls under one title and well integrated is what 
> really distinguishes Mandriva from the other distros. Practically in all 
> of the news items that I have read of Mandriva, they mention the 
> powerful tools at the users' disposal to help in configure/maintain the 
> Mandriva distro, and this type of comment has been going on for years.
> 
> I hope that Mageia would not stray from this tool. Whichever way the 
> devs decide to programme the tools from the back-en does not matter to 
> the user. How easily it is to configure/maintain the distro is what 
> counts to the user and it is quite a strong selling point.

100% agree, let's not destroy one of the most outstanding unique selling 
points of Mandriva/Mageia, the MCC.

Don't fix what ain't broken, let's concentrate on improving it but 
certainly not on replacing it.

Somehow I have a feeling this thread will be a deja vu of the rpm vs. 
deb thread...


From Juergen.Harms at unige.ch  Fri Oct  1 13:10:19 2010
From: Juergen.Harms at unige.ch (Juergen Harms)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:10:19 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <i848fa$rhj$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <4CA57B34.4040903@iki.fi>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010010813140.14786-100000@outpost-priv>
	<i848fa$rhj$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4CA5C19B.7050907@unige.ch>

On 10/01/2010 11:08 AM, Marc Par? wrote:
> I don't think that the mirrors will necessarily drop mirror support for
> Mandriva for Mageia because the Mandriva brand does carry some weight
> and they have not, as of yet' abandoned the developing MandrivaLinux.
> They are still in the server market and have said that their consumer
> product will be carried on as usual.
>
> This is where the marketing of the Mageia brand would maybe make a
> difference. If the stated goals of Mageia are clear and marry well with
> the mirror site philosophies then we could probably convince sites to
> mirror Mageia.

This thread has 2 issues, my comment is on the public mirror topic:

I had, a couple of months back, a discussion with the group-leader at 
Switch who is responsible for managing the Switch mirror site: the 
Mandriva repositories had all at sudden disappeared from that mirror.

I was told that removing Mandriva had been a strategy decision, trying 
to confine the size of the Switch mirror to a "reasonable" size, and 
that the access count to the Mandriva repository did not justify to keep 
it. My private opinion is that Switch - an educational organisation - 
has made a mistake here.

That means that mirror sites do watch
    - the size of software they keep
    - the usage of the corresponding mirror
    - the "relevance" of that software.

It may be a good idea if Mageia initially focuses on getting support 
from some few well-placed mirrors who can be convinced that Mageia is a 
promising "startup" distro and merits goodwill in a pump-priming spirit. 
I guess the language groups could help establishing contacts.

To come back to my Switch experience: I have still good relations with 
their management; at that time, doubts about Mandriva were spreading and 
I did not have the necessary arguments for a discussion at that level. 
This will be different once Mageia is established and has a "good image" 
and a distribution anounced for date xxx. Is it worth while to have a 
small group of "advocates" who are mandated by Mageia to talk to mirror 
sites and discuss which sites to contact? If that helps (and offloads 
the people who do "everything"), I am willing to participate and help).

From nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 13:11:09 2010
From: nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org (Olivier Thauvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:11:09 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
Message-ID: <20101001111109.GQ1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>

* Thomas Backlund (tmb at iki.fi) wrote:
> Olivier Thauvin skrev 1.10.2010 04:32:
>> Hi,
>>
> [...]
>>    - no resiging packages from cooker to stable at release (rpm changes,
>>      any possible hardlink get broken)
>
> If we resign the whole tree and relink it "offline", and then move the  
> full tree online, does it still break downstream mirrors ?

After rpm --resign rpm differ between cooker and stable (the signature
changed). So hardlink between cooker and stable is impossible.

Howerver I have a script to redo hardlink, it allow me to win around 10GB
over the whole mandriva mirror.

> If we need to do the "move current -> old" dance, we need to be careful  
> so mirrors does not end up resyncing another 100GB every time...
> (IIRC you had complaints about how it was done earlier at Mandriva, so
>  we need to remember those problems)

By "old" I mean a different tree mirrors can choose to mirror or not.
Not moving the distro from a directory to another.

In other words this mean archiving the distro and make it removed from
most of our mirror.

-- 

Olivier Thauvin
CNRS  -  LATMOS
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From tux99-mga at uridium.org  Fri Oct  1 13:23:08 2010
From: tux99-mga at uridium.org (Tux99)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:23:08 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
 Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Fabrice Facorat wrote:

> This is about making some decisions about some tools. Some of the
> Mandriva tools have outdate UI, cluttered UI and even are sometimes
> buggy.
> The situation persists since many years already, so at some point we
> should ask ourself : are we going to rewrite them, notably the UI, to
> make them be more 2010, or should we use another tool with another
> GUI.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the GUI of the draktools.

If imrpoving them means to rewrite them from scratch or replace them 
with inferior tools from other distros, then that would be a big effort 
and/or step backwards just for the estetics. 

Substance counts a lot more than appearance to me.

P.S: cc'ing in both cooker and mageia lists is not a good idea as many 
people are not on both lists so the discussion will just split in two


From marc at marcpare.com  Fri Oct  1 13:28:03 2010
From: marc at marcpare.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marc_Par=E9?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 07:28:03 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA5C19B.7050907@unige.ch>
References: <4CA57B34.4040903@iki.fi>	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010010813140.14786-100000@outpost-priv>	<i848fa$rhj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<4CA5C19B.7050907@unige.ch>
Message-ID: <i84gk4$af$1@dough.gmane.org>

>
> This thread has 2 issues, my comment is on the public mirror topic:
>
> I had, a couple of months back, a discussion with the group-leader at
> Switch who is responsible for managing the Switch mirror site: the
> Mandriva repositories had all at sudden disappeared from that mirror.
>
> I was told that removing Mandriva had been a strategy decision, trying
> to confine the size of the Switch mirror to a "reasonable" size, and
> that the access count to the Mandriva repository did not justify to keep
> it. My private opinion is that Switch - an educational organisation -
> has made a mistake here.
>
> That means that mirror sites do watch
> - the size of software they keep
> - the usage of the corresponding mirror
> - the "relevance" of that software.
>
> It may be a good idea if Mageia initially focuses on getting support
> from some few well-placed mirrors who can be convinced that Mageia is a
> promising "startup" distro and merits goodwill in a pump-priming spirit.
> I guess the language groups could help establishing contacts.
>
> To come back to my Switch experience: I have still good relations with
> their management; at that time, doubts about Mandriva were spreading and
> I did not have the necessary arguments for a discussion at that level.
> This will be different once Mageia is established and has a "good image"
> and a distribution anounced for date xxx. Is it worth while to have a
> small group of "advocates" who are mandated by Mageia to talk to mirror
> sites and discuss which sites to contact? If that helps (and offloads
> the people who do "everything"), I am willing to participate and help).
>

I think at this point, it is more of who you know personally at a 
potential "mirror site" location that will most likely help out. Mirror 
space is not taken lightly as it normally involves a certain amount of 
strain on the mirror site system. However, in the same breath, if the 
traffic on the mirror does not show enough usage, then it is considered 
a misuse of space and , like you said, in the case of the Switch mirror, 
the mirror is shut down.

Plus, if there is still no movement in the Cauldron showing that it is a 
going concern, then most mirror sites will only say to come back to talk 
to us only when you have something to show.

Marc


From marc at marcpare.com  Fri Oct  1 13:31:25 2010
From: marc at marcpare.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marc_Par=E9?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 07:31:25 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva
	tools on github
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
References: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
Message-ID: <i84gqd$af$2@dough.gmane.org>

Le 2010-10-01 07:23, Tux99 a ?crit :
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Fabrice Facorat wrote:
>
>> This is about making some decisions about some tools. Some of the
>> Mandriva tools have outdate UI, cluttered UI and even are sometimes
>> buggy.
>> The situation persists since many years already, so at some point we
>> should ask ourself : are we going to rewrite them, notably the UI, to
>> make them be more 2010, or should we use another tool with another
>> GUI.
>
> Personally I don't see anything wrong with the GUI of the draktools.
>
> If imrpoving them means to rewrite them from scratch or replace them
> with inferior tools from other distros, then that would be a big effort
> and/or step backwards just for the estetics.
>
> Substance counts a lot more than appearance to me.
>
> P.S: cc'ing in both cooker and mageia lists is not a good idea as many
> people are not on both lists so the discussion will just split in two
>
>

Ooops, Tux99, it also looks like your post has broken the thread on the 
dev side.

The thread probably best belongs on the dev mailist.

Marc


From marc at marcpare.com  Fri Oct  1 13:37:25 2010
From: marc at marcpare.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marc_Par=E9?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 07:37:25 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva
	tools on github
In-Reply-To: <i84gqd$af$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
	<i84gqd$af$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <i84h5l$af$3@dough.gmane.org>


>>
>> P.S: cc'ing in both cooker and mageia lists is not a good idea as many
>> people are not on both lists so the discussion will just split in two
>>
>>
>
> Ooops, Tux99, it also looks like your post has broken the thread on the
> dev side.
>
> The thread probably best belongs on the dev mailist.
>
> Marc
>
>
Oops again, I thought I was responding on the dev mailist side. How 
funny is that?

Marc



From skiperdrake at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 14:14:51 2010
From: skiperdrake at gmail.com (Thomas Lottmann)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:14:51 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva
 tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA5D0BB.5000201@gmail.com>

  Le 01/10/2010 12:38, Fabrice Facorat a ?crit :
> I've been following closely all the Mandriva vs Mageia story. I found
> it unfortunate that we have to come to this way, but I guess there's a
> serious fracture between Mandriva and part of its community. We have
> no choice except to cope with this and try to do our best to allow
> this unfortunate situation to found a sensible solution in the future.
>
> As we know, one of the Mandriva strenght are the Mandriva tools,
> however Mandriva tools have some issues :
> - they are written in perl. Sorry for perl dev, but I do still think
> that perl is harder to understand than C-like based syntax langages.
> However we must admit that we are not going to rewrite all the
> Mandriva tools ;-) However better documentation ( PerlDoc tags ) could
> help a little.
>
> - Mandriva tools are not used by others distributions ( except
> PCLinuxOS, United Linux, and ... Mageia ) and so have few external
> contributions : They notably lack visibility.

I do agree with this.

> I do think also that Mandriva will have to use its ressources in an
> efficient way.
>
> Here aree my proposals, feel free to discuss :
>
> 1. host Mandriva tools on github or code.google.com. This will ease
> fork maintenance and tracking, to contribute back ( without having to
> have a Mandriva account )

Yes. Having their own 'site' and independent platform may help.

> 2. Make some decisions about the tools we should keep, and the ones we
> should ... trash. For example we did replace printerdrake with
> system-config-printer ( python ), and msec have been rewritten (
> python ). Whereas I do think that system-config-printer is way buggier
> than printerdrake, I guess that at some points, we will have to do
> this more and more : replace some Mandriva tools with for example some
> Fedora ones. Please note however that this bring its own issues :
> python vs perl, and the integration with the rest of Mandriva
> infrastructure

We need to see what is still functional, what is broken (and so what is 
to repair), and what is to drop. Eventually, what is to support and 
repair again (printerdrake?) if possible.

For what I know, there are many tools that work : RPMDrake and related, 
Drakstats, Diskdrake, Harddrake, DrakX11, Drak3D, DrakUPS, DrakFirewall, 
DrakGuard (wonderful this one) but may networking tools to share network 
or use VPN, Samba, NFS, WebDav, and eventually along with Diskdrake, are 
broken. Others such as Draksnapshot and DrakSamba (not sure if it works 
or not) are a pain due to insufficient functionalities or 
outdated/painful GUI. There is a nice theming functionality in the MCC 
that is also probably broken or difficult to use, that could be restored 
or explained.

> 3. A decision will have to be made concerning net_applet and NetworkManager

Yes, even though I think we should give another chance to NetApplet and 
see what should be fixed to make it better. NetAppler has the advantages 
of being linked to DrakFirewall, perhaps other tools, and to be 
independent of any environment.

> 4. Whereas I do love rpmdrake, I do think also that something will
> have to be done about it as its UI is clearly outdated and not on par
> with the competition :
> - Ubuntu software center :
> http://seilo.geekyogre.com/2010/09/software-center-with-a-dose-of-zeitgeist-and-maybe-teamgeist/
> , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center ,
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter
> - iTunes App Store :
> http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_to_download_iphone_apps_from_apple_itunes_store.html
> , http://cybernetnews.com/download-iphone-firmware-20-itunes-77-app-store-and-more/
> - Interesting discussion about PackageKit direction :
> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/a-story-about-updates-and-people/
>
> So we may have to completely rewrite rpmdrake UI or switch to
> packagekit with and urpmi backend.

I still have a very strong faith and appreciation for RPMDrake. I really 
think it is well designed and intuitive, despite it's little issues and 
being slow (honestly, PackageKit is slow and also has issues so...).

The real issue that RPMDrake has is it's Aplications with GUI filter. 
Even if I think this functionalitiy is really good for beginners, 
RPMDrake is a -package- manager. Mandriva does need a real and dedicated 
Application manager (could be called an AppCenter) where beginners would 
find a way to install (shop?) applications with a very nice layout, 
presentation, clear icons, screenshot, and no irritating choice of 
hundreds of dependencies with barbaric names.
It might be difficult, but much more convenient for those who just want 
things to work in a snap (or in very few clicks).

This would allow to place back again the default filter on "All" (should 
be renamed to "Show all packages") for the RPMDrake package manager. We 
would then have an AppCenter and a real package manager for advanced 
package management, without forgetting a dedicated tool with GUI to 
manage orphans more efficiently.

Yet, all of this demands a huge lot of work and we will need huge 
resources...

> 5. Junior tasks contributions. I noticed while visiting the
> LibreOffice website. They have junior task for people willing to
> contribute to the codebase, and most of theses junior tasks consist to
> improve code clarity, fix comments. I guess that the same thing could
> be done with Mandriva tools, notably adding perldoc tags/comments.

Yes. This will help people from outside understand better how the 
program works. Reading the code itself isn't that easy even if it is 
well written.

> Last but not least, I know that on Mageia ML, there was a discussion
> about the people we should target. Here are some interesting
> reflexions :
> Sweet Caroline : http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/sweet-caroline/
> fedoraproject.org redesign update :
> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/fedoraproject-org-redesign-update/
> You must be this tall to ride: __ :
> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/you-must-be-this-tall-to-ride-__

Will read them when I'll find the time to...

Thomas.


From thierry.vignaud at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:03:09 2010
From: thierry.vignaud at gmail.com (Thierry Vignaud)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:03:09 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
	Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <m34od6rxq5.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<m34od6rxq5.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTima2eyu2QghTqT4-pcs1+g9699wf3eWgg=pofK5@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 October 2010 12:52, Olivier Blin <mageia at blino.org> wrote:
> But actually, just moving to git could make contributions easier,
> because of the ability for developpers to commit locally, and push
> incremental patchsets.

It's easier for us developers but more difficult for translators that
learned to use SVN (which was easy for them to swtich from CVS since
the commands were similar)

From yochenhsieh at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:09:11 2010
From: yochenhsieh at gmail.com (You-Cheng Hsieh)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 21:09:11 +0800
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Chinese translation for Mageia's page
In-Reply-To: <8CD2F44B954D08B-9B4-156B7@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CD2F44B954D08B-9B4-156B7@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=mqUxrhV_mA=MNSJzSB46Txpr37wpMFFBrx1bo@mail.gmail.com>

2010/10/1  <futureway at asia.com>:
> I have no other community now. And this is our community. You and I use the
> same native language -- Chinese, though we use different Chinese characters.
> (I don't mind if you use the traditional Chinse characters, and I also can
> read them because I am interested in ancient books.)
>
> "??" can be used as "a fork of a road", but "??" is used as "a branch of a
> tree", right? However, "fork" also has a meaning "branch" in many
> dictionaries. There is another difficult word "hack", and it is also
> difficult to be exactly translated into Chinese.
>
> You can directly modify my Chinese translation (Skiper had sent it to the
> site), or put your Chinese translation on the site's front page. I wish to
> see a Chinese page in the site. :)
>
> Linux Lover

Hello,
Although some people can read both simplified and traditional Chinese
characters, there are users who have difficulty reading one of them,
either simplified or traditional.  I suggest no matter in any
circumstances, we should not use only simplified or traditional
Chinese translation to present a single "Chinese" page. Since you have
already made your translation, we can put both zh-CN and zh-TW pages
online for users of both different character forms.

Regards,

You-Cheng Hsieh

From thierry.vignaud at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:14:20 2010
From: thierry.vignaud at gmail.com (Thierry Vignaud)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:14:20 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva
 tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=LhjYBpDuHdrc23oVkknsPibjstwxhRE=PhX9j@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 October 2010 12:38, Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> wrote:
> As we know, one of the Mandriva strenght are the Mandriva tools,
> however Mandriva tools have some issues :
> - they are written in perl. Sorry for perl dev, but I do still think
> that perl is harder to understand than C-like based syntax langages.

That's your point of view. Every programmer will have its own POV.
Thus this is a void argument.

I think an higher language makes the entry barrier smaller for new programmers:
- real algorithms are not in hidden/drown malloc/free spagetti
- no memory bugs
- no security issues b/c of poorly thinked/coded memory management

What's more, with ugtk2 & mygtk2 it's easy to express a complex GUI
with a compact
& powerfull dialect which would need 10 times more code to do in C

> However we must admit that we are not going to rewrite all the
> Mandriva tools ;-) However better documentation ( PerlDoc tags ) could
> help a little.

More doc would be better indeed.

> - Mandriva tools are not used by others distributions ( except
> PCLinuxOS, United Linux, and ... Mageia ) and so have few external
> contributions : They notably lack visibility.

void argument: SUSE tools (yast, ...) are only used on SUSE, and the like

> I do think also that Mandriva will have to use its ressources in an
> efficient way.

In the hand, some users will think about us as just as rh or debian,
just packaged by themselves.
We would just remove what makes us different, loosing users.

> 5. Junior tasks contributions. I noticed while visiting the
> LibreOffice website. They have junior task for people willing to
> contribute to the codebase, and most of theses junior tasks consist to
> improve code clarity, fix comments. I guess that the same thing could
> be done with Mandriva tools, notably adding perldoc tags/comments.

Indeed. People can start by looking at existing bug reports and dig in code.

From fabrice.facorat at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:15:26 2010
From: fabrice.facorat at gmail.com (Fabrice Facorat)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:15:26 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
	Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
References: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimDzdEPvBeyedRUJDGUkj=yuVwMkb3PXBjVBcKy@mail.gmail.com>

2010/10/1 Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org>:
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Fabrice Facorat wrote:
>
>> This is about making some decisions about some tools. Some of the
>> Mandriva tools have outdate UI, cluttered UI and even are sometimes
>> buggy.
>> The situation persists since many years already, so at some point we
>> should ask ourself : are we going to rewrite them, notably the UI, to
>> make them be more 2010, or should we use another tool with another
>> GUI.
>
> Personally I don't see anything wrong with the GUI of the draktools.

there's many things wrong. Just try Wndows 7 or Windows 2008 R2 tools
http://www.win2008r2workstation.com/win2008r2/themes
http://learn.iis.net/page.aspx/29/installing-iis-7-on-windows-server-2008-or-windows-server-2008-r2/
http://www.verboon.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/2010061520h01_291.png
http://4sysops.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/windows-server-2008-r2-bpa.png

> If imrpoving them means to rewrite them from scratch or replace them
> with inferior tools from other distros, then that would be a big effort
> and/or step backwards just for the estetics.
>
> Substance counts a lot more than appearance to me.

again you're somewhat wrong

iPod and iPhones are inferirors products technically speaking, but
they have better appearance ( good marketing, which is about
appearance ) and so are successful.



-- 
Close the World, Open the Net
http://www.linux-wizard.net

From fabrice.facorat at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:22:24 2010
From: fabrice.facorat at gmail.com (Fabrice Facorat)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:22:24 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva
 tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=LhjYBpDuHdrc23oVkknsPibjstwxhRE=PhX9j@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=LhjYBpDuHdrc23oVkknsPibjstwxhRE=PhX9j@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4scFv0WVPvGi0-iP+BxXPvgdarJgr_OJVo0QA@mail.gmail.com>

2010/10/1 Thierry Vignaud <thierry.vignaud at gmail.com>:
> On 1 October 2010 12:38, Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> wrote:
>> As we know, one of the Mandriva strenght are the Mandriva tools,
>> however Mandriva tools have some issues :
>> - they are written in perl. Sorry for perl dev, but I do still think
>> that perl is harder to understand than C-like based syntax langages.
>
> That's your point of view. Every programmer will have its own POV.
> Thus this is a void argument.

sure, but I do think that people learing programming langages, notably
at school/university, first learn C-based langages ( C, C++, java,
PHP, .Net ), and so are more used to theses kinds of structures/syntax

> I think an higher language makes the entry barrier smaller for new programmers:
> - real algorithms are not in hidden/drown malloc/free spagetti
> - no memory bugs
> - no security issues b/c of poorly thinked/coded memory management

I did talk about C-like syntax langages. For example mono, php, java, python.
Ypu know having things like : if-then-else

> What's more, with ugtk2 & mygtk2 it's easy to express a complex GUI
> with a compact
> & powerfull dialect which would need 10 times more code to do in C

I did look several times at ugtk2/mygtk2 :
- new dialect to learn
- issues in the predefined widgets
- syntax ( notably arg list ) hard to grasp, especially as there's no doc

I did try several time to fix some tools, and even some wizards. But
it was damn hard to read the code, understand it, grasp ugtk2/mygtk2

>> However we must admit that we are not going to rewrite all the
>> Mandriva tools ;-) However better documentation ( PerlDoc tags ) could
>> help a little.
>
> More doc would be better indeed.
>
>> - Mandriva tools are not used by others distributions ( except
>> PCLinuxOS, United Linux, and ... Mageia ) and so have few external
>> contributions : They notably lack visibility.
>
> void argument: SUSE tools (yast, ...) are only used on SUSE, and the like

indeed. But Suse have Novell behind with more money and dev than you.


-- 
Close the World, Open the Net
http://www.linux-wizard.net

From renaud at olgiati-in-paraguay.org  Fri Oct  1 15:25:27 2010
From: renaud at olgiati-in-paraguay.org (Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 09:25:27 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
	Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimDzdEPvBeyedRUJDGUkj=yuVwMkb3PXBjVBcKy@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
	<AANLkTimDzdEPvBeyedRUJDGUkj=yuVwMkb3PXBjVBcKy@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201010010925.28024.renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>

On Friday 01 October 2010, my mailbox was graced by a missive
 from Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> who wrote:

> > Substance counts a lot more than appearance to me.
> 
> again you're somewhat wrong
> 
> iPod and iPhones are inferirors products technically speaking, but
> they have better appearance ( good marketing, which is about
> appearance ) and so are successful.
 
If you are swayed by such arguments, you should be using Windows which has a 
much better marketing than Linux.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
                           A sadist is a masochist
                         who follows the Golden Rule.
                                    
                   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --


From fabrice.facorat at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:32:19 2010
From: fabrice.facorat at gmail.com (Fabrice Facorat)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:32:19 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
 Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <201010010925.28024.renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>
References: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
	<AANLkTimDzdEPvBeyedRUJDGUkj=yuVwMkb3PXBjVBcKy@mail.gmail.com>
	<201010010925.28024.renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimBLkRXtKA1M=ma=XAfXWjzxsg_VHAkpCHhLQUp@mail.gmail.com>

2010/10/1 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud at olgiati-in-paraguay.org>:
> On Friday 01 October 2010, my mailbox was graced by a missive
> ?from Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> who wrote:
>
>> > Substance counts a lot more than appearance to me.
>>
>> again you're somewhat wrong
>>
>> iPod and iPhones are inferirors products technically speaking, but
>> they have better appearance ( good marketing, which is about
>> appearance ) and so are successful.
>
> If you are swayed by such arguments, you should be using Windows which has a
> much better marketing than Linux.

live in you own world.
Can you read what i wrote ?

1. I do say that appearance is important
2. you can have substance, but you need appearance too
3. I do use linux all time on my computer, make 60 people work on
Linux Mandriva at work, do Linux classroom and formations to other
people and I do prefer an android phone than an iphone
4. whereas you have your preferences, you have also to look at the
other people, in fact ... 14% of Mobiles users ( iPhone ), and 80% of
computer users ... Andro?d is successful because they manage to have
the substance and the appearance.


-- 
Close the World, Open the Net
http://www.linux-wizard.net

From odahlum at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:40:49 2010
From: odahlum at gmail.com (Olav Dahlum)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:40:49 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
 Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTima2eyu2QghTqT4-pcs1+g9699wf3eWgg=pofK5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>	<m34od6rxq5.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<AANLkTima2eyu2QghTqT4-pcs1+g9699wf3eWgg=pofK5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA5E4E1.40701@broadpark.no>

 On 01/10/10 15:03, Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> On 1 October 2010 12:52, Olivier Blin <mageia at blino.org> wrote:
>> But actually, just moving to git could make contributions easier,
>> because of the ability for developpers to commit locally, and push
>> incremental patchsets.
> It's easier for us developers but more difficult for translators that
> learned to use SVN (which was easy for them to swtich from CVS since
> the commands were similar)

Well, I don't think GIT (or Mercurial) would be a problem for most of
us. Yes, probably for some, but those are the same who don't want to
understand SVN or have a clue about translation tools.

Regards,

Olav

From mageia at blino.org  Fri Oct  1 15:43:31 2010
From: mageia at blino.org (Olivier Blin)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:43:31 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
	Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTima2eyu2QghTqT4-pcs1+g9699wf3eWgg=pofK5@mail.gmail.com>
	(Thierry Vignaud's message of "Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:03:09 +0200")
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<m34od6rxq5.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<AANLkTima2eyu2QghTqT4-pcs1+g9699wf3eWgg=pofK5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3k4m2qb98.fsf@euphor.blino.org>

Thierry Vignaud <thierry.vignaud at gmail.com> writes:

> On 1 October 2010 12:52, Olivier Blin <mageia at blino.org> wrote:
>> But actually, just moving to git could make contributions easier,
>> because of the ability for developpers to commit locally, and push
>> incremental patchsets.
>
> It's easier for us developers but more difficult for translators that
> learned to use SVN (which was easy for them to swtich from CVS since
> the commands were similar)

Translators should not even have to see the underlying VCS, it's
probably easier with something like transifex or pootle 

-- 
Olivier Blin - blino

From odahlum at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:47:14 2010
From: odahlum at gmail.com (Olav Dahlum)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:47:14 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
 Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <m3k4m2qb98.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>	<m34od6rxq5.fsf@euphor.blino.org>	<AANLkTima2eyu2QghTqT4-pcs1+g9699wf3eWgg=pofK5@mail.gmail.com>
	<m3k4m2qb98.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
Message-ID: <4CA5E662.5060903@broadpark.no>

 On 01/10/10 15:43, Olivier Blin wrote:
> Thierry Vignaud <thierry.vignaud at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 1 October 2010 12:52, Olivier Blin <mageia at blino.org> wrote:
>>> But actually, just moving to git could make contributions easier,
>>> because of the ability for developpers to commit locally, and push
>>> incremental patchsets.
>> It's easier for us developers but more difficult for translators that
>> learned to use SVN (which was easy for them to swtich from CVS since
>> the commands were similar)
> Translators should not even have to see the underlying VCS, it's
> probably easier with something like transifex or pootle 
>

Not all us are fans of platforms like Transifex and Pootle... ;-)

From marc at marcpare.com  Fri Oct  1 15:48:23 2010
From: marc at marcpare.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marc_Par=E9?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 09:48:23 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Cross postings
Message-ID: <i84or7$5jh$1@dough.gmane.org>

Could we try to avoid cross postings. It is very inefficient.

There are two threads now that are cross posting and it is doubling the 
amount of reading for nothing. For those 2 threads, could we just pick 
either the dev or user and go from there?

Marc


From giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:50:02 2010
From: giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com (Gustavo Giampaoli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:50:02 -0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
 Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <201010010925.28024.renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>
References: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>
	<AANLkTimDzdEPvBeyedRUJDGUkj=yuVwMkb3PXBjVBcKy@mail.gmail.com>
	<201010010925.28024.renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=yikr0dObv4RU7MRTboh8gguUqqhVBBNYYLJt=@mail.gmail.com>

> If you are swayed by such arguments, you should be using Windows which has a
> much better marketing than Linux.

We must accept that Microsoft and Apple know very very well how to
sell their self.

We can do all the "bla bla bla" (linux is better, linux is free, etc),
but MS and Apple still are lightyears beyond us in terms of marketing
and sales.

Even if you don't like what I'm going to write, we must learn
"Marketing 101" from them.

They want money. They want sales. They invest a lot in make their
appearance fabulous and in develop "wizards" to help "supid people" to
do tasks. Why to do that if it's not important? Why Windows 7 doesn't
look like Windows 95? Why people can do everything with the mouse
only? clik clik clik, next next next.

I'll tell you why: because people like beautiful desktops. You can
have sh*t of OS, but you put a nice GUI on top and people will love
it.

Same way if you put the sweetest marmalade in an ugly and dirty
package. And you also put some dog sh*t in the most beautiful
packaging, with a nice ribbon.

Ask them "please, pick one". Which one do you think people will pick first?

Yes, the important thing is the delicious marmalade inside and not the
packaging. But how will you make people to find the marmalade if they
don't even want to take the pack?

Same way, if I tell you "go to floor 130". And you can choose between
go by stairs or go in elevator. Call me lazy, but I'll go in elevator.

Cheers!


Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)

From mageia at blino.org  Fri Oct  1 15:53:07 2010
From: mageia at blino.org (Olivier Blin)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:53:07 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
	Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <4CA5E662.5060903@broadpark.no> (Olav Dahlum's message of "Fri,
	01 Oct 2010 15:47:14 +0200")
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<m34od6rxq5.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<AANLkTima2eyu2QghTqT4-pcs1+g9699wf3eWgg=pofK5@mail.gmail.com>
	<m3k4m2qb98.fsf@euphor.blino.org> <4CA5E662.5060903@broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <m3d3ruow8s.fsf@euphor.blino.org>

Olav Dahlum <odahlum at gmail.com> writes:

>  On 01/10/10 15:43, Olivier Blin wrote:
>> Thierry Vignaud <thierry.vignaud at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 1 October 2010 12:52, Olivier Blin <mageia at blino.org> wrote:
>>>> But actually, just moving to git could make contributions easier,
>>>> because of the ability for developpers to commit locally, and push
>>>> incremental patchsets.
>>> It's easier for us developers but more difficult for translators that
>>> learned to use SVN (which was easy for them to swtich from CVS since
>>> the commands were similar)
>> Translators should not even have to see the underlying VCS, it's
>> probably easier with something like transifex or pootle 
>
> Not all us are fans of platforms like Transifex and Pootle... ;-)

Then you still have the underlying VCS :)

-- 
Olivier Blin - blino

From dv.paul at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 16:23:36 2010
From: dv.paul at gmail.com (Paul De Vlieger)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 16:23:36 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Cross postings
In-Reply-To: <i84or7$5jh$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <i84or7$5jh$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4CA5EEE8.4020605@gmail.com>

 Le 01/10/2010 15:48, Marc Par? a ?crit :
> Could we try to avoid cross postings. It is very inefficient.
>
> There are two threads now that are cross posting and it is doubling the amount
> of reading for nothing. For those 2 threads, could we just pick either the dev
> or user and go from there?
>
> Marc
>
I agree, and maybe someone can remind how to reply to lists, without top posting
or creating a new thread for the same subject.

It's really difficult to follow you guys :/

Paul

From dv.paul at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 16:23:36 2010
From: dv.paul at gmail.com (Paul De Vlieger)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 16:23:36 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Cross postings
In-Reply-To: <i84or7$5jh$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <i84or7$5jh$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4CA5EEE8.4020605@gmail.com>

 Le 01/10/2010 15:48, Marc Par? a ?crit :
> Could we try to avoid cross postings. It is very inefficient.
>
> There are two threads now that are cross posting and it is doubling the amount
> of reading for nothing. For those 2 threads, could we just pick either the dev
> or user and go from there?
>
> Marc
>
I agree, and maybe someone can remind how to reply to lists, without top posting
or creating a new thread for the same subject.

It's really difficult to follow you guys :/

Paul

From dvgevers at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  1 16:41:10 2010
From: dvgevers at xs4all.nl (Dick Gevers)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:41:10 +0000
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001111109.GQ1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
	<20101001111109.GQ1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
Message-ID: <201010011441.o91Ef0UU073670@smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:11:09 +0200, Olivier Thauvin wrote about Re:
[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size:

>After rpm --resign rpm differ between cooker and stable (the signature
>changed). So hardlink between cooker and stable is impossible.

Is this only due to the fact that stable has a different key than Cooker?

If yes, then Mageia could use the same key for stable and Cauldron? No?

Best regards,
=Dick Gevers=

From dvgevers at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  1 16:42:42 2010
From: dvgevers at xs4all.nl (Dick Gevers)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:42:42 +0000
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201010011441.o91Ef0UU073670@smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
	<20101001111109.GQ1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201010011441.o91Ef0UU073670@smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <201010011442.o91EgWgt053340@smtp-vbr16.xs4all.nl>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:41:10 +0000, Dick Gevers wrote about Re:
[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size:

>Is this only due to the fact that stable has a different key than Cooker?

Stupid. Dependencies are different.


From ftg at roadrunner.com  Fri Oct  1 16:44:18 2010
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:44:18 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future :
 Host Mandriva tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=yikr0dObv4RU7MRTboh8gguUqqhVBBNYYLJt=@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=2uqxiQDtwrjxAobwLoS6d9h4nbCQwGTqJVkBB@mail.gmail.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.44.1010011318390.15309-100000@outpost-priv>	<AANLkTimDzdEPvBeyedRUJDGUkj=yuVwMkb3PXBjVBcKy@mail.gmail.com>	<201010010925.28024.renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>
	<AANLkTi=yikr0dObv4RU7MRTboh8gguUqqhVBBNYYLJt=@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA5F3C2.7050606@roadrunner.com>

Gustavo Giampaoli wrote:
>
> Same way if you put the sweetest marmalade in an ugly and dirty
> package. And you also put some dog sh*t in the most beautiful
> packaging, with a nice ribbon.
>
> Ask them "please, pick one". Which one do you think people will pick first?
>   

You're overlooking that fact that if you are a commercial enterprise you
can pay people to tie ribbons around dogsh*t, but you'll find very few
community contributors who are willing to do that for their own
amusement and edification. :-)

From maarten.vanraes at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 16:59:30 2010
From: maarten.vanraes at gmail.com (Maarten Vanraes)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 16:59:30 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi> <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
Message-ID: <201010011659.30918.maarten.vanraes@gmail.com>

Op vrijdag 01 oktober 2010 09:28:28 schreef Thomas Backlund:
> Thomas Backlund skrev 1.10.2010 09:21:
[...]
> SRPMS
> debug
> i586
> noarch
> x86_64
> 
> 
> And then add to the Mirroring FAQ (for endusers) that you need noarch in
> addition to the arch you want to mirror.
> 
> Of course this means some changes to the upload system
> (installer / mirror manager should be simple as they read media.cfg)


actually, imo, noarch could be a real savior. i see that quite some packages 
are i586 on mandriva, but in reality could be made noarch.

also, i notice that if there is a small fix somewhere, alot of dependant 
package are being rebuilt. disregarding packaging requirements and version 
update, there is no real requirement.

it would make things complex, but either we could take a look at some way of 
having dependant package able to use the older versions. Or even more complex, 
a sort of meta-package that holds no content, only a version nr and a referral 
to the previous version. (imo, this would make it far too complex, thought)

From mageia at blino.org  Fri Oct  1 17:09:26 2010
From: mageia at blino.org (Olivier Blin)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 17:09:26 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201010011659.30918.maarten.vanraes@gmail.com> (Maarten Vanraes's
	message of "Fri, 1 Oct 2010 16:59:30 +0200")
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi> <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
	<201010011659.30918.maarten.vanraes@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3vd5mne55.fsf@euphor.blino.org>

Maarten Vanraes <maarten.vanraes at gmail.com> writes:

> actually, imo, noarch could be a real savior. i see that quite some packages 
> are i586 on mandriva, but in reality could be made noarch.

Especially since the BS can now cope with noarch sub-packages from
arched packages.

It allows to split out most of the noarch stuff (basically everything in
/usr/share could be considered) to sub-packages, and save space on the
mirrors.

-- 
Olivier Blin - blino

From legnerquero at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:18:40 2010
From: legnerquero at gmail.com (Egner Quero)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:18:40 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
Message-ID: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54456595 at N07/5041992632/

This is a simplistic design is only the first prototype, any suggestion is
always welcome

Best regards!
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From giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:24:55 2010
From: giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com (Gustavo Giampaoli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:24:55 -0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>

The first thing I felt is that the small circles are like people. But
these 3 persons are looking to different places. They are giving the
back to each other.

Of course, my feedback is really subjective.

Cheers!


Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)

From amfidiusz at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:30:25 2010
From: amfidiusz at gmail.com (Adrian Marcinkowski)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 17:30:25 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>

W dniu 2010-10-01 17:24, Gustavo Giampaoli pisze:
> The first thing I felt is that the small circles are like people.

The first feeling was a comparison to a biohazard icon. Then, I started 
to find out the true meaning of the symbols used.

PS Again: Do we really need to have a discussion here over every single 
logo proposal in a separate thread? Why not to keep them in the original 
one?


From legnerquero at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:32:56 2010
From: legnerquero at gmail.com (Egner Quero)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:32:56 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikQnqOdM7HV9YCXz8aAgEa2y_ZpcPkUu6R2Mi71@mail.gmail.com>

>From one perspective (overhead view) can be interpreted as three people with
magic hat, or three wise men.

The main idea rather, was placed 5 circles representing the 5 continents,
but I found that with a design of 3 circles, get a much more harmonious.

Best Regards!

2010/10/1 Gustavo Giampaoli <giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com>

> The first thing I felt is that the small circles are like people. But
> these 3 persons are looking to different places. They are giving the
> back to each other.
>
> Of course, my feedback is really subjective.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)
>
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From giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:33:17 2010
From: giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com (Gustavo Giampaoli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:33:17 -0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
	<i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimNy3mu9PSPZe27kRHJKrafkWpC_8d1MpqWxP_U@mail.gmail.com>

> PS Again: Do we really need to have a discussion here over every single logo
> proposal in a separate thread? Why not to keep them in the original one?

True. We all could leave our feedback in each logo's page, at Flickr.
We only need to register.



Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)

From nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 17:37:17 2010
From: nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org (Olivier Thauvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:37:17 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201010011442.o91EgWgt053340@smtp-vbr16.xs4all.nl>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
	<20101001111109.GQ1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201010011441.o91Ef0UU073670@smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl>
	<201010011442.o91EgWgt053340@smtp-vbr16.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20101001153717.GR1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>

* Dick Gevers (dvgevers at xs4all.nl) wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:41:10 +0000, Dick Gevers wrote about Re:
> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size:
> 
> >Is this only due to the fact that stable has a different key than Cooker?

Yes, it is the reason.

> 
> Stupid. Dependencies are different.

Of course this gain can only affect not updated packages, but we also
try to rebuild everything during release cycle, making rpm differents.

But there's still a gain, the mirror size do not suddently increase at
release time since at this time the new stable equal cooker and then all
files can hardlink'd.

Regards.

-- 

Olivier Thauvin
CNRS  -  LATMOS
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From legnerquero at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:39:52 2010
From: legnerquero at gmail.com (Egner Quero)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:39:52 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
	<i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>

This is an original design, I had not seen before biohazard design, however,
the symbol which is the basis for my design and apparently also for the
biohazard symbol, is an esoteric symbol, an ancient magical symbol that insert
is the base where the 3 circles.

Best regards.

2010/10/1 Adrian Marcinkowski <amfidiusz at gmail.com>

> W dniu 2010-10-01 17:24, Gustavo Giampaoli pisze:
>
>  The first thing I felt is that the small circles are like people.
>>
>
> The first feeling was a comparison to a biohazard icon. Then, I started to
> find out the true meaning of the symbols used.
>
> PS Again: Do we really need to have a discussion here over every single
> logo proposal in a separate thread? Why not to keep them in the original
> one?
>
>
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From giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:43:08 2010
From: giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com (Gustavo Giampaoli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:43:08 -0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
	<i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimJUuOJu=ZBrhATmMh3Jfhq-UgihEY_1KZomwen@mail.gmail.com>

2010/10/1 Egner Quero <legnerquero at gmail.com>:
> This is an original design, I had not seen before biohazard design,

http://www.google.com.ar/images?hl=es&source=imghp&biw=1600&bih=809&q=biohazard+logo&gbv=2&aq=1&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=biohaz&gs_rfai=


Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)

From legnerquero at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 17:48:02 2010
From: legnerquero at gmail.com (Egner Quero)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:48:02 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
	<i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=y95P05C4SGu2Wng7DsihokcyKJD0BRzX59dHP@mail.gmail.com>

I left the proposal in the group mageia with their respective comments, the
image of mageia, is also very important to consider doing so publicly in
this way.

Best regards!

2010/10/1 Egner Quero <legnerquero at gmail.com>

> This is an original design, I had not seen before biohazard design,
> however, the symbol which is the basis for my design and apparently also for
> the biohazard symbol, is an esoteric symbol, an ancient magical symbol that insert
> is the base where the 3 circles.
>
> Best regards.
>
> 2010/10/1 Adrian Marcinkowski <amfidiusz at gmail.com>
>
> W dniu 2010-10-01 17:24, Gustavo Giampaoli pisze:
>>
>>  The first thing I felt is that the small circles are like people.
>>>
>>
>> The first feeling was a comparison to a biohazard icon. Then, I started to
>> find out the true meaning of the symbols used.
>>
>> PS Again: Do we really need to have a discussion here over every single
>> logo proposal in a separate thread? Why not to keep them in the original
>> one?
>>
>>
>
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From Wayne at WayneSallee.com  Fri Oct  1 17:44:18 2010
From: Wayne at WayneSallee.com (Wayne Sallee)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 11:44:18 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] who knows about site mageia-br?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=-28eVPGZ0oxpwqVMdZw0jBqQ-VK2ucX0b2N8t@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100927145051.1E7400DA@resin17.mta.everyone.net>	<4CA1A032.60808@tuxette.fr>	<AANLkTikEC86_vEj3XDDX4XufEGE7TPgTv+WSXQe3SWqB@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimK0aHVYN_SYMzaWQUJyXZ3vCT_RN8-dcs5GXbE@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimg5D7Lkfozxds3rsB-Oh3yMDXt_q_w7NPNvejA@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=-28eVPGZ0oxpwqVMdZw0jBqQ-VK2ucX0b2N8t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA601D2.5090303@WayneSallee.com>

Ahmad Samir wrote on 09/28/2010 12:42 PM:
> Gmail differs in just how it *groups* the received emails in threads
> (called conversations in the gmail world).

You can disable that in the gmail settings.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne at WayneSallee.com

From legnerquero at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 18:00:47 2010
From: legnerquero at gmail.com (Egner Quero)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 18:00:47 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimJUuOJu=ZBrhATmMh3Jfhq-UgihEY_1KZomwen@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
	<i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimJUuOJu=ZBrhATmMh3Jfhq-UgihEY_1KZomwen@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimkPSJYOED9NtsOaXzHOJj2ReW6YdcVsVVhUPy8@mail.gmail.com>

ok the basis for design is an ancient symbol of magic, no longer original
logo mandriva to bring the image of a star? Of course not ...

this is a symbol as old as the symbol of a star:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54456595 at N07/5041488891/

Escribe texto o la direcci?n de un sitio web o traduce un
documento<http://translate.google.co.ve/?tr=f&hl=es>
.
Cancelar <http://translate.google.co.ve/?tr=t&hl=es>
I do not think it is so difficult for you to understand that

please try to find it before making comments without having sufficient
knowledge about it, besides everyone here just want to contribute. why
sacrifice some of our time.
Escuchar
Leer fon?ticamente




2010/10/1 Gustavo Giampaoli <giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com>

> 2010/10/1 Egner Quero <legnerquero at gmail.com>:
> > This is an original design, I had not seen before biohazard design,
>
>
> http://www.google.com.ar/images?hl=es&source=imghp&biw=1600&bih=809&q=biohazard+logo&gbv=2&aq=1&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=biohaz&gs_rfai=
>
>
> Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)
>
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From maarten.vanraes at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 18:01:44 2010
From: maarten.vanraes at gmail.com (Maarten Vanraes)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 18:01:44 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] who knows about site mageia-br?
In-Reply-To: <4CA601D2.5090303@WayneSallee.com>
References: <20100927145051.1E7400DA@resin17.mta.everyone.net>
	<AANLkTi=-28eVPGZ0oxpwqVMdZw0jBqQ-VK2ucX0b2N8t@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA601D2.5090303@WayneSallee.com>
Message-ID: <201010011801.44211.maarten.vanraes@gmail.com>

Op vrijdag 01 oktober 2010 17:44:18 schreef Wayne Sallee:
> Ahmad Samir wrote on 09/28/2010 12:42 PM:
> > Gmail differs in just how it *groups* the received emails in threads
> > (called conversations in the gmail world).
> 
> You can disable that in the gmail settings.
> 
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne at WayneSallee.com


if I do so, will i receive the emails i get from mailing lists if i sent them 
myself?

From Wayne at WayneSallee.com  Fri Oct  1 18:03:22 2010
From: Wayne at WayneSallee.com (Wayne Sallee)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:03:22 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Question about the fork.
In-Reply-To: <4CA29ED4.1010004@gmail.com>
References: <4CA29ED4.1010004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA6064A.4090104@WayneSallee.com>

Ireneusz Gierlach wrote on 09/28/2010 10:05 PM:
>  I have joined the mailing list a little late, so I'm not sure if this 
> was asked.
> At what point will it/is it forked? I mean like from which version of 
> Mandriva or Cooker etc.
> Anyone knows?
>
Someone mentioned earlier that it would be either the latest version of 
Mandrivia, or Cooker.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne at WayneSallee.com

From Wayne at WayneSallee.com  Fri Oct  1 18:10:02 2010
From: Wayne at WayneSallee.com (Wayne Sallee)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:10:02 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] we need a NEW mageia-artwork MAILING LIST!!
In-Reply-To: <201009291113.43226.marcello.anni@alice.it>
References: <201009291113.43226.marcello.anni@alice.it>
Message-ID: <4CA607DA.6010204@WayneSallee.com>



Marcello Anni wrote on 09/29/2010 05:13 AM:
> choose the logo and the pay-off.
>
>    

What do you mean by "pay-off"?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne at WayneSallee.com

From Wayne at WayneSallee.com  Fri Oct  1 17:59:14 2010
From: Wayne at WayneSallee.com (Wayne Sallee)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 11:59:14 -0400
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Modern Simplistic Logo Proposal
In-Reply-To: <4CA24AF1.1060905@radiantnet.co.za>
References: <4CA24AF1.1060905@radiantnet.co.za>
Message-ID: <4CA60552.4010709@WayneSallee.com>


> http://www.mageia-za.org/mageia.jpg
>
> http://www.mageia-za.org/mageia2.jpg
>

Nice teaser there. all we get now is a 404 not found. :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne at WayneSallee.com

From tarakbumba at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 19:13:53 2010
From: tarakbumba at gmail.com (atilla ontas)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:13:53 +0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimkPSJYOED9NtsOaXzHOJj2ReW6YdcVsVVhUPy8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>
	<i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimJUuOJu=ZBrhATmMh3Jfhq-UgihEY_1KZomwen@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimkPSJYOED9NtsOaXzHOJj2ReW6YdcVsVVhUPy8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimCV4qB-VHXFucJZv9yR2CcRQqYD7Hov47=VC50@mail.gmail.com>

2010/10/1 Egner Quero <legnerquero at gmail.com>:
> ok the basis for design is an ancient symbol of magic, no longer original
> logo mandriva to bring the image of a star? Of course not ...
>
> this is a symbol as old as the symbol of a star:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/54456595 at N07/5041488891/
>
> Escribe texto o la direcci?n de un sitio web o traduce un documento.
> Cancelar
> I do not think it is so difficult for you to understand that
> please try to find it before making comments without having sufficient
> knowledge about it, besides everyone here just want to contribute. why
> sacrifice some of our time.
> Escuchar
> Leer fon?ticamente
>
>
>
> 2010/10/1 Gustavo Giampaoli <giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com>
>>
>> 2010/10/1 Egner Quero <legnerquero at gmail.com>:
>> > This is an original design, I had not seen before biohazard design,
>>
>>
>> http://www.google.com.ar/images?hl=es&source=imghp&biw=1600&bih=809&q=biohazard+logo&gbv=2&aq=1&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=biohaz&gs_rfai=
>>
>>
>> Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)
>
>

What about this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54399945 at N03/5038864075/

From boklm at mars-attacks.org  Fri Oct  1 19:16:46 2010
From: boklm at mars-attacks.org (nicolas vigier)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:16:46 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi> <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
Message-ID: <20101001171646.GS21938@mars-attacks.org>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010, Olivier Blin wrote:

> 
> BTW, we could also consider migrating to a PLF-like tree structure,
> which looks better structured:

It looks like a nice tree structure.


From maarten.vanraes at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 19:23:34 2010
From: maarten.vanraes at gmail.com (Maarten Vanraes)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:23:34 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001171646.GS21938@mars-attacks.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<20101001171646.GS21938@mars-attacks.org>
Message-ID: <201010011923.34969.maarten.vanraes@gmail.com>

Op vrijdag 01 oktober 2010 19:16:46 schreef nicolas vigier:
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2010, Olivier Blin wrote:
> > BTW, we could also consider migrating to a PLF-like tree structure,
> 
> > which looks better structured:
> It looks like a nice tree structure.

i would prefer noarch to be on the same level as x86_64 and i586 and SRPM and 
possibly others later depending on if we have buildnodes...

From phenomenal at wp.pl  Fri Oct  1 19:36:06 2010
From: phenomenal at wp.pl (Tomasz =?ISO-8859-2?B?UGF3ZbM=?= Gajc)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:36:06 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
Message-ID: <20101001193606.4b8330cb@wp.pl>

Dnia 2010-10-01, o godz. 03:32:29
Olivier Thauvin <nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org> napisa?(a):

> Hi,
> 
> I did started to contact some people to find Tier1 mirrors. One
> question come immediatelly: what will be the size of our mirror tree ?


I'll try to ask my ISP(also my emplyer) which holds http://ftp.tpnet.pl/
to be a primary mirror.


-- 
Regards
TPG

http://cia.vc/stats/author/tpg
---
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From tux99-mga at uridium.org  Fri Oct  1 19:32:12 2010
From: tux99-mga at uridium.org (Tux99)
Date: Fri,  1 Oct 2010 13:32:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimCV4qB-VHXFucJZv9yR2CcRQqYD7Hov47=VC50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f.4ca61b1a@mageia.linuxtech.net>


Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Organization: Mageia ML Gateway Test Forum
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimCV4qB-VHXFucJZv9yR2CcRQqYD7Hov47=VC50 at mail.gmail.com>
X-FUDforum: eae8679fe7e063970a19bc3823dcb4e1 <15>
Message-ID: <f.4ca61b1a at mageia.linuxtech.net>



Quote: atilla ontas wrote on Fri, 01 October 2010 13:13
> 
> What about this?
> 

Nice


From legnerquero at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 19:49:08 2010
From: legnerquero at gmail.com (Egner Quero)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:49:08 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <f.4ca61b1a@mageia.linuxtech.net>
References: <AANLkTimCV4qB-VHXFucJZv9yR2CcRQqYD7Hov47=VC50@mail.gmail.com>
	<f.4ca61b1a@mageia.linuxtech.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikhosVOjhm4_Ag9QSucdhD4KYcn0neVero5c7az@mail.gmail.com>

Wonderful, I like :-)

2010/10/1 Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org>

>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
>  charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Organization: Mageia ML Gateway Test Forum
> In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimCV4qB-VHXFucJZv9yR2CcRQqYD7Hov47=VC50 at mail.gmail.com
> >
> X-FUDforum: eae8679fe7e063970a19bc3823dcb4e1 <15>
> Message-ID: <f.4ca61b1a at mageia.linuxtech.net>
>
>
>
> Quote: atilla ontas wrote on Fri, 01 October 2010 13:13
> >
> > What about this?
> >
>
> Nice
>
>
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From andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr  Fri Oct  1 20:10:23 2010
From: andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIFNhbGHDvG4=?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:10:23 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001171646.GS21938@mars-attacks.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi> <4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>
	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<20101001171646.GS21938@mars-attacks.org>
Message-ID: <20101001201023.5be4df6b@gaia>

Le Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:16:46 +0200
nicolas vigier <boklm at mars-attacks.org> a ?crit:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2010, Olivier Blin wrote:
> 
> > 
> > BTW, we could also consider migrating to a PLF-like tree structure,
> > which looks better structured:
> 
> It looks like a nice tree structure.
Or like a triskell

-- 
A.Sala?n




From omejean at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  1 20:11:04 2010
From: omejean at yahoo.fr (Olivier =?utf-8?q?M=C3=A9jean?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:11:04 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
Message-ID: <201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>

Le vendredi 1 octobre 2010 12:46:36, Olivier Blin a ?crit :
> Michael Scherer <misc at zarb.org> writes:
> >> Oh, and this is why I have suggested from time to time to break noarch
> >> out of arch trees, so:
> >>
> >> SRPMS
> >> i586
> >> x86_64
> >>
> >> would turn into:
> >>
> >> SRPMS
> >> i586
> >> noarch
> >> x86_64
> >
> > We can simply do a hardlink for this, so no space is wasted and no need
> > to have different directory ( of course, the hardlink must be done maybe
> > it is already the case, didn't check ).
> 
> Yes, noarch are supposed to be hardlinked already.
> But it could make the upload process simpler to have noarch in a
> separate directory (no need to hardlink to all arches), and genhdlist2
> faster (by splitting out a noarch hdlist).
> 
> BTW, we could also consider migrating to a PLF-like tree structure,
> which looks better structured:
> 
> media/
>   main/
>     release/
>       binary/
>         noarch/
>         arch1/
>         arch2/
>         ...
>       debug/
>         arch1/
>         arch2/
>         ...
>       source/
>     testing/
>       ...
>     updates/
>       ...
>     backports/
>   contrib/
>      ...
>   non-free/
>      ...
> 

What is the difference between main and contrib ? I mean, it was a 
understandable for Mandriva, main was rpms "guaranteed" by Mandriva while 
contrib was not. But now, with a project like mageia there is no longer need 
to separate main from contrib

-- 
Olivier M?jean
Pr?sident de l'Association des Utilisateurs Francophones de Mandriva Linux
http://mandrivafr.org
twitter : obagoom
identi.ca : goom

From andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr  Fri Oct  1 20:20:02 2010
From: andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIFNhbGHDvG4=?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:20:02 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20101001202002.1f34037d@gaia>

Le Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:11:04 +0200
Olivier M?jean <omejean at yahoo.fr> a ?crit:
./.
> 
> What is the difference between main and contrib ? I mean, it was a 
> understandable for Mandriva, main was rpms "guaranteed" by Mandriva while 
> contrib was not. But now, with a project like mageia there is no longer need 
> to separate main from contrib

+1

-- 
A.Sala?n




From tmb at iki.fi  Fri Oct  1 20:26:42 2010
From: tmb at iki.fi (Thomas Backlund)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 21:26:42 +0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>	<4CA57DE4.1050608@iki.fi>
	<4CA58D9C.8010603@iki.fi>	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
Message-ID: <4CA627E2.8070400@iki.fi>

Olivier Blin skrev 1.10.2010 13:46:
>
> BTW, we could also consider migrating to a PLF-like tree structure,
> which looks better structured:
>
> media/
>    main/
>      release/
>        binary/
>          noarch/
>          arch1/
>          arch2/
>          ...
>        debug/
>          arch1/
>          arch2/
>          ...
>        source/
>      testing/
>        ...
>      updates/
>        ...
>      backports/
>    contrib/
>       ...
>    non-free/
>       ...
>

This is a nice layout

--
Thomas

From giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 20:28:56 2010
From: giampaoli.gustavo at gmail.com (Gustavo Giampaoli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:28:56 -0300
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin4B_u+EahzfmvVDxiwCYaPzXETSQ2naE4wQ8HS@mail.gmail.com>

> What is the difference between main and contrib ? I mean, it was a
> understandable for Mandriva, main was rpms "guaranteed" by Mandriva while
> contrib was not. But now, with a project like mageia there is no longer need
> to separate main from contrib

Maybe you could have a "core" repo. Core will be the packages for a
bare distro. The completely naked basic distro. Kind of Mageia +
drakes + drivers + basic desktop. Not any "regular" application like
GIMP.  Pretty basic.

This core must be managed / touched / modified / updated only by a
"selected" group of developers. Because this core would be the spine
of the whole distro, the naked OS. This would ensure the stability of
the system because only pros and / or well
experienced-with--enough-merits developers will touch the system guts.

And you could have other repo for all the rest of the software.

Cheers!



Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)

From nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org  Fri Oct  1 20:41:39 2010
From: nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org (Olivier Thauvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:41:39 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001193606.4b8330cb@wp.pl>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<20101001193606.4b8330cb@wp.pl>
Message-ID: <20101001184139.GW1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>

* Tomasz Pawe? Gajc (phenomenal at wp.pl) wrote:
> Dnia 2010-10-01, o godz. 03:32:29
> Olivier Thauvin <nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org> napisa?(a):
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I did started to contact some people to find Tier1 mirrors. One
> > question come immediatelly: what will be the size of our mirror tree ?
> 
> 
> I'll try to ask my ISP(also my emplyer) which holds http://ftp.tpnet.pl/
> to be a primary mirror.

You can ask but I do think it is a bit too early.

I didn't took time to explain the plan for mirror but will do this
week-end.

The harder work is to find Tier1 mirrors, eg mirrors syncing directly
from our server. They should:
- provide rsync server
- provide the full tree (even it is big)
- being able to reply quickly in case of problem
- still able to provide the service in few years

When theses mirrors will be found it will possible to setup others
mirrors.

However, if ftp.tpnet.pl can do this, feel free to ask. Expected tree
size: 700GB, expected average bandwidth: 40mbs/s.

At time only distrib-coffee has been elected to be Tier1 :)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards
> TPG
> 
> http://cia.vc/stats/author/tpg
> ---


-- 

Olivier Thauvin
CNRS  -  LATMOS
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From shikamaru at mandriva.org  Fri Oct  1 20:47:32 2010
From: shikamaru at mandriva.org (Remy CLOUARD)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:47:32 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Artwork - Mageia Logo contest
In-Reply-To: <20100924213318.GA19011@shikamaru.fr>
References: <20100921130524.1E6BFCE7@resin06.mta.everyone.net>
	<AANLkTi=yenSaXbDn2HXLgjeyPk5EoGfnRDy=eB4ZtHy=@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinwr6C9PKjOTSxCM+BwA0hP3fX_cztQBBz3hO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<201009232257.46605.yorick_@openoffice.org>
	<AANLkTikdzuZh6RmZut1eAZxzK2QViRDOEvLGQ_AjJXFF@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C9B378C.5010809@free.fr>
	<AANLkTi==Pc1HBcj26NbxrMhnsN2HCaxu20QQx4hhg0=T@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimMSsSOSj_m_LUq_UTM41Af5G7gnuKxvxXMD6j6@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimjDUzayqMvju2nYE3rVgkCOOT97tF_YxzcBoxr@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100924213318.GA19011@shikamaru.fr>
Message-ID: <20101001184732.GA18264@shikamaru.fr>

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:33:18PM +0200, Remy CLOUARD wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 03:13:02PM +0300, Mihai Dobrescu wrote:
> And this is the result :
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/54217230 at N05/5021464618/in/pool-1491252 at N24/
> 
> Black and white version :
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/54217230 at N05/5021464608/in/pool-1491252 at N24/
> 
> When I first looked at it again, it made me think of this picture :
> http://www.asdfing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/facts_about_leonardo_da_vinci.jpg
> 
> Unfortunately, as it is very simple in its design, I fear there is a
> high chance that a similar logo exists as well, sorry if it?s the case
> 
> I hope you like this idea, feedback would be very welcome :)
> 
What I feared came to me actually sooner than I expected :

I just saw an ad on TV for hyperassur, I just let your curiosity find
how its logo look like. All in all my logo attempt is not that close to
this one, but the underlying principle is quite the same I think, not
something that could knock out this attempt tho? IMHO

Regards,
-- 
R?my CLOUARD
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
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From omejean at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  1 20:51:28 2010
From: omejean at yahoo.fr (Olivier =?utf-8?q?M=C3=A9jean?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:51:28 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin4B_u+EahzfmvVDxiwCYaPzXETSQ2naE4wQ8HS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
	<AANLkTin4B_u+EahzfmvVDxiwCYaPzXETSQ2naE4wQ8HS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201010012051.28399.omejean@yahoo.fr>

Le vendredi 1 octobre 2010 20:28:56, Gustavo Giampaoli a ?crit :
> > What is the difference between main and contrib ? I mean, it was a
> > understandable for Mandriva, main was rpms "guaranteed" by Mandriva while
> > contrib was not. But now, with a project like mageia there is no longer
> > need to separate main from contrib
> 
> Maybe you could have a "core" repo. Core will be the packages for a
> bare distro. The completely naked basic distro. Kind of Mageia +
> drakes + drivers + basic desktop. Not any "regular" application like
> GIMP.  Pretty basic.
> 
> This core must be managed / touched / modified / updated only by a
> "selected" group of developers. Because this core would be the spine
> of the whole distro, the naked OS. This would ensure the stability of
> the system because only pros and / or well
> experienced-with--enough-merits developers will touch the system guts.
> 
> And you could have other repo for all the rest of the software.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> Gustavo Giampaoli (aka tavillo1980)
> 

So following that way, let's name core the media containing the core of the 
system and ... well ... non-core the rest (keeping also non-free)

Maybe before talking about mirror size it could be nice to think about how 
will mageia deal with rpms, core and non-core, how to include new software. 
This last point is important if using fixed release since in Mandriva there was 
no repo for newly added software (eg if mysupersoft was released after 
Mandriva 2010 there was no repo to include it, maybe backport, what's lead to 
create third part repos)

-- 
Olivier M?jean
Pr?sident de l'Association des Utilisateurs Francophones de Mandriva Linux
http://mandrivafr.org
twitter : obagoom
identi.ca : goom

From dvgevers at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  1 20:55:18 2010
From: dvgevers at xs4all.nl (Dick Gevers)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 18:55:18 +0000
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<1285923017.5530.315.camel@akroma.ephaone.org>
	<m3d3rury0j.fsf@euphor.blino.org>
	<201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
Message-ID: <201010011855.o91It7fK012570@smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:11:04 +0200, Olivier M?jean wrote about Re:
[Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size:

>What is the difference between main and contrib ? I mean, it was a 
>understandable for Mandriva, main was rpms "guaranteed" by Mandriva while 
>contrib was not. But now, with a project like mageia there is no longer
>need to separate main from contrib

Why not? If I were an official-release-user I'd want security updates to be
ensured as much on Mageia as on Mandriva. Are we now suddenly able to
guarantee that for all of ex-contrib in main? Or do we leave security
updates out of Mageia? I'd hope not.

Cheers,
=Dick Gevers=

From fri at tribun.eu  Fri Oct  1 20:59:34 2010
From: fri at tribun.eu (Morgan =?utf-8?q?Leijstr=C3=B6m?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:59:34 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin4B_u+EahzfmvVDxiwCYaPzXETSQ2naE4wQ8HS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<201010012011.04324.omejean@yahoo.fr>
	<AANLkTin4B_u+EahzfmvVDxiwCYaPzXETSQ2naE4wQ8HS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201010012059.34197.fri@tribun.eu>

Den 2010-10-01 20:28:56 skrev Gustavo Giampaoli:
> > What is the difference between main and contrib ? I mean, it was a
> > understandable for Mandriva, main was rpms "guaranteed" by Mandriva while
> > contrib was not. But now, with a project like mageia there is no longer
> > need to separate main from contrib
>
> Maybe you could have a "core" repo. Core will be the packages for a
> bare distro. The completely naked basic distro. Kind of Mageia +
> drakes + drivers + basic desktop. Not any "regular" application like
> GIMP.  Pretty basic.
>
> This core must be managed / touched / modified / updated only by a
> "selected" group of developers. Because this core would be the spine
> of the whole distro, the naked OS. This would ensure the stability of
> the system because only pros and / or well
> experienced-with--enough-merits developers will touch the system guts.
>
> And you could have other repo for all the rest of the software.

I think it is good to have that priority clearly stated like that, so the most 
important parts are given most care.

It is also easy to just grab what is most important.

And Yes it looks like a nice structure on PLF

From phenomenal at wp.pl  Fri Oct  1 21:27:29 2010
From: phenomenal at wp.pl (Tomasz =?ISO-8859-2?B?UGF3ZbM=?= Gajc)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 21:27:29 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Mageia Mirror size
In-Reply-To: <20101001184139.GW1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
References: <20101001013228.GN1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
	<20101001193606.4b8330cb@wp.pl>
	<20101001184139.GW1637@virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org>
Message-ID: <20101001212729.4e29b8cd@wp.pl>

Dnia 2010-10-01, o godz. 20:41:39
Olivier Thauvin <nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org> napisa?(a):

> * Tomasz Pawe? Gajc (phenomenal at wp.pl) wrote:
> > Dnia 2010-10-01, o godz. 03:32:29
> > Olivier Thauvin <nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org> napisa?(a):
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I did started to contact some people to find Tier1 mirrors. One
> > > question come immediatelly: what will be the size of our mirror
> > > tree ?
> > 
> > 
> > I'll try to ask my ISP(also my emplyer) which holds
> > http://ftp.tpnet.pl/ to be a primary mirror.
> 
> You can ask but I do think it is a bit too early.
> 

Ofcourse i will ask.

> I didn't took time to explain the plan for mirror but will do this
> week-end.
> 
> The harder work is to find Tier1 mirrors, eg mirrors syncing directly
> from our server. They should:
> - provide rsync server
> - provide the full tree (even it is big)
> - being able to reply quickly in case of problem
> - still able to provide the service in few years
> 
> When theses mirrors will be found it will possible to setup others
> mirrors.
> 
> However, if ftp.tpnet.pl can do this, feel free to ask. Expected tree
> size: 700GB, expected average bandwidth: 40mbs/s.
> 
> At time only distrib-coffee has been elected to be Tier1 :)
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Regards
> > TPG
> > 
> > http://cia.vc/stats/author/tpg
> > ---
> 
> 



-- 
Regards
TPG

http://cia.vc/stats/author/tpg
---
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From kristoffer.grundstrom1983 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 22:12:23 2010
From: kristoffer.grundstrom1983 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kristoffer_Grundstr=F6m?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 22:12:23 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] I want Apport to become included in Mageia
Message-ID: <4CA640A7.1090205@gmail.com>

Now that this distro is quite new I feel that you should add Apport 
instead of Bugbuddy.

If that's not possible, then redo Bugbuddy to behave like Apport that 
gathers log-files better & creates bugreports in a better way.

From amfidiusz at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 23:45:38 2010
From: amfidiusz at gmail.com (Adrian Marcinkowski)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 23:45:38 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] Another proposal for mageia logo
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimkPSJYOED9NtsOaXzHOJj2ReW6YdcVsVVhUPy8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik5FrP8V3DM8gupN+cWvQb4DNUhSy6poi7i26BP@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTik2fzSKSts0m4RmeyO4QaGn2LN=6j6Z0bwsM1sB@mail.gmail.com>	<i84uqn$6k4$1@dough.gmane.org>	<AANLkTik+VCZ_qwDVCRoi-_PLsAfu4+sMOcL7p-tjcRBR@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimJUuOJu=ZBrhATmMh3Jfhq-UgihEY_1KZomwen@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimkPSJYOED9NtsOaXzHOJj2ReW6YdcVsVVhUPy8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <i85kq6$dqt$1@dough.gmane.org>

W dniu 2010-10-01 18:00, Egner Quero pisze:
> this is a symbol as old as the symbol of a star:
> please try to find it before making comments without having sufficient
> knowledge about it

Hey, I'm not saying it's not an ancient symbol. I'm not saying it does 
not represent magic. I'm just giving my opinion on what was the first 
thing in my mind after seeing that proposal. Do not expect users to run 
extensive research in order to just find out what the logo stands for. 
The image has to be clear at the first sight.
Besides, what have you expected while writing this post if you can't 
handle some critic?


From skipercooker at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 14:27:30 2010
From: skipercooker at gmail.com (Thomas Lottmann)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:27:30 +0200
Subject: [Mageia-discuss] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva
 tools on github
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimK=MaASuGhf_g2We+5Nt6-+h9GcsRdqxQMcH4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA5D3B2.10704@gmail.com>

  Le 01/10/2010 12:38, Fabrice Facorat a ?crit :
> I've been following closely all the Mandriva vs Mageia story. I found
> it unfortunate that we have to come to this way, but I guess there's a
> serious fracture between Mandriva and part of its community. We have
> no choice except to cope with this and try to do our best to allow
> this unfortunate situation to found a sensible solution in the future.
>
> As we know, one of the Mandriva strenght are the Mandriva tools,
> however Mandriva tools have some issues :
> - they are written in perl. Sorry for perl dev, but I do still think
> that perl is harder to understand than C-like based syntax langages.
> However we must admit that we are not going to rewrite all the
> Mandriva tools ;-) However better documentation ( PerlDoc tags ) could
> help a little.
>
> - Mandriva tools are not used by others distributions ( except
> PCLinuxOS, United Linux, and ... Mageia ) and so have few external
> contributions : They notably lack visibility.

I do agree with this.

> I do think also that Mandriva will have to use its ressources in an
> efficient way.
>
> Here aree my proposals, feel free to discuss :
>
> 1. host Mandriva tools on github or code.google.com. This will ease
> fork maintenance and tracking, to contribute back ( without having to
> have a Mandriva account )

Yes. Having their own 'site' and independent platform may help.

> 2. Make some decisions about the tools we should keep, and the ones we
> should ... trash. For example we did replace printerdrake with
> system-config-printer ( python ), and msec have been rewritten (
> python ). Whereas I do think that system-config-printer is way buggier
> than printerdrake, I guess that at some points, we will have to do
> this more and more : replace some Mandriva tools with for example some
> Fedora ones. Please note however that this bring its own issues :
> python vs perl, and the integration with the rest of Mandriva
> infrastructure

We need to see what is still functional, what is broken (and so what is 
to repair), and what is to drop. Eventually, what is to support and 
repair again (printerdrake?) if possible.

For what I know, there are many tools that work : RPMDrake and related, 
Drakstats, Diskdrake, Harddrake, DrakX11, Drak3D, DrakUPS, DrakFirewall, 
DrakGuard (wonderful this one) but may networking tools to share network 
or use VPN, Samba, NFS, WebDav, and eventually along with Diskdrake, are 
broken. Others such as Draksnapshot and DrakSamba (not sure if it works 
or not) are a pain due to insufficient functionalities or 
outdated/painful GUI. There is a nice theming functionality in the MCC 
that is also probably broken or difficult to use, that could be restored 
or explained.

> 3. A decision will have to be made concerning net_applet and NetworkManager

Yes, even though I think we should give another chance to NetApplet and 
see what should be fixed to make it better. NetAppler has the advantages 
of being linked to DrakFirewall, perhaps other tools, and to be 
independent of any environment.

> 4. Whereas I do love rpmdrake, I do think also that something will
> have to be done about it as its UI is clearly outdated and not on par
> with the competition :
> - Ubuntu software center :
> http://seilo.geekyogre.com/2010/09/software-center-with-a-dose-of-zeitgeist-and-maybe-teamgeist/
> , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center ,
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter
> - iTunes App Store :
> http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_to_download_iphone_apps_from_apple_itunes_store.html
> , http://cybernetnews.com/download-iphone-firmware-20-itunes-77-app-store-and-more/
> - Interesting discussion about PackageKit direction :
> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/a-story-about-updates-and-people/
>
> So we may have to completely rewrite rpmdrake UI or switch to
> packagekit with and urpmi backend.

I still have a very strong faith and appreciation for RPMDrake. I really 
think it is well designed and intuitive, despite it's little issues and 
being slow (honestly, PackageKit is slow and also has issues so...).

The real issue that RPMDrake has is it's Aplications with GUI filter. 
Even if I think this functionalitiy is really good for beginners, 
RPMDrake is a -package- manager. Mandriva does need a real and dedicated 
Application manager (could be called an AppCenter) where beginners would 
find a way to install (shop?) applications with a very nice layout, 
presentation, clear icons, screenshot, and no irritating choice of 
hundreds of dependencies with barbaric names.
It might be difficult, but much more convenient for those who just want 
things to work in a snap (or in very few clicks).

This would allow to place back again the default filter on "All" (should 
be renamed to "Show all packages") for the RPMDrake package manager. We 
would then have an AppCenter and a real package manager for advanced 
package management, without forgetting a dedicated tool with GUI to 
manage orphans more efficiently.

Yet, all of this demands a huge lot of work and we will need huge 
resources...

> 5. Junior tasks contributions. I noticed while visiting the
> LibreOffice website. They have junior task for people willing to
> contribute to the codebase, and most of theses junior tasks consist to
> improve code clarity, fix comments. I guess that the same thing could
> be done with Mandriva tools, notably adding perldoc tags/comments.

Yes. This will help people from outside understand better how the 
program works. Reading the code itself isn't that easy even if it is 
well written.

> Last but not least, I know that on Mageia ML, there was a discussion
> about the people we should target. Here are some interesting
> reflexions :
> Sweet Caroline : http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/sweet-caroline/
> fedoraproject.org redesign update :
> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/fedoraproject-org-redesign-update/
> You must be this tall to ride: __ :
> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/you-must-be-this-tall-to-ride-__

Will read them when I'll find the time to...

Thomas.